| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
Colin Mc |
Times Rumour Mill |
Lead | |
|
Posts: 760 (21-Jun-2009 21:56:50) |
Army faces biggest cuts since Crimea Michael Smith THE Ministry of Defence intends to cut army manpower to its lowest level since the Crimean war. Plans to axe
three infantry battalions - a total of 1,800 men - are being discussed despite the overstretch caused by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. This would see the
size of the army drop below 100,000 for the first time since the 1850s. The army is so desperate to protect funding for Afghanistan that it could offer cuts
only in infantry units to meet demands for savings. General Sir David Richards, the incoming head of the army, offered to sacrifice The Green Howards, the
regiment of General Sir Richard Dannatt, the current head of the army. The plan was discussed at a high-level meeting of the army, the navy and the RAF in
Whitehall last Tuesday. The defence ministry said this weekend it could not discuss the proposed cuts because next year's planning round was
"ongoing". The RAF proposed the scrapping of Harrier jump jets while the navy proposed axing Type42 destroyers early, and putting back the
replacement for its frigates for 20 years. "This is the opening move in what could be the bloodiest spending round yet," a senior defence source
said. "All three services will get new defence chiefs over the next two months. This is going to hit them like a speeding train." The infantry units
under threat are those that have deployed abroad recently and are not due to go to Afghanistan over the next three or four years, the sources said. One
battalion from each of the Yorkshire Regiment, the Mercian Regiment and the Royal Regiment of Scotland will go. The Green Howards are the battalion of the
Yorkshire Regiment earmarked for the axe. The official "trained manning requirement" of the army is 101,790, so the loss of three battalions, of
roughly 1,800 men in total, would take the strength of the army to below 100,000. Charles Heyman, a former infantry officer who edits The Armed Forces of the
United Kingdom, a military guide, said the proposed cuts were "stark raving mad". He added: "If we were to withdraw from Afghanistan it would be
fine but with the government saying operations there will go on for 10 years it is sheer lunacy. It will do severe damage to morale within the infantry and
within the wider army." Richards has called for a "ruthless focus" on Afghanistan. He is determined to ensure that the army is seen to be
successful to restore its reputation for counter-insurgency, which he believes has been badly damaged in Iraq.
|
||
kev 99a |
|||
|
Registered Member
Posts: 645 (21-Jun-2009 22:26:31) |
Discussion pieces on Trident being axed and the potential savings to be made (surely that's son of trident
):
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6549544.ece http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article6549490.ece Surprisingly an Air Commodore speaks for the case against replacement gets in a sneaky dig at CVF.
Last Edited By: kev 99a
21-Jun-2009 22:28:34.
Edited 1 times.
|
||
Jimlad1 |
|||
|
Posts: 1610 (21-Jun-2009 23:24:31) |
This is what I posted on ARRSE - it stands true today
Okay everyone, I know the outrage bus is boarding, but lets try and put some clarity here. PR10 is underway - this is the annual process when the MOD tries to balance its books. As part of this process, a huge range of options is drawn up from across the board - these range from high pain to low pain. High pain are the ones that will never be taken, but low pain means it could be taken on risk. What appears to have happened here is that some well meaning idiot has leaked the high pain options out there. I'm calling them an idiot for a good reason - the options process is supposed to be done in house and without leaking to allow the Forces the chance to talk about options that will never be taken - such as some of the ones discussed above. They can be discussed and written off and no one gets emotional or upset. The reason this is done is to ensure that we have a plan to say to Ministers - "well Minister, we can save £X Billion, but to do so would mean scrapping XYZ and no longer buying ABC". The whole point is that they don't get dragged out in public. The moment you leak them, then these cuts are in the public domain, and its possible to get a reaction to them - and it makes it suddenly palatable to have a discussion on the issues with a view to taking the option. After all, it may be high pain, but if the papers don't care that much, then the Minister (yes this does come down to Politicians) may think it safe to risk the option and save some money. In other words, the muppet that leaked a confidential range of options has just ensured that these are now legitimate targets and not just 'thinkpieces'. Every year people are warned not to leak for the good of their service interests, and every year people do just this and end up damaging their service interests. Add to the fact that I have a very strong suspicion that elements of the story are factually incorrect, and it really doesnt' add up to much. |
||
kev 99a |
|||
|
Registered Member
Posts: 647 (21-Jun-2009 23:39:07) |
There seems to be a lot of these happening over the last 12 months.
|
||
Colin Mc |
|||
|
Posts: 761 (22-Jun-2009 00:17:26) |
Think the Navy is playing a blinder with its contribution to proposed cuts. T42s are being replaced over a relative short period, anyway. And lifting FSC out
of the next ten year planning round is a good move because it will save a lot of money for little loss now; and of course the future includes several changes
of government and perhaps a couple of booms. Ample opportunity for a change of plans. The Harrier cut is Torpy's last stand - you can't keep a good man
down; but I am surprised at the Army proposing an infantry cut when it wants to excel in counter-insurgency while back at the ranch they have all those heavy
tanks.
|
||
MSR |
|||
|
Posts: 2920 (22-Jun-2009 18:36:01) |
but I am surprised at the Army proposing an infantry cut when it wants to excel in counter-insurgency while back at the ranch they have all those heavy tanks. Because despite what some generals have said about facing international terrorism rather than industrial warfare, the Army still knows that you have to plan for the unexpected. And boots on the ground are probably still faster and cheaper to recruit and train than tracked vehicles are to design and build.
The aim of diplomacy is to achieve results, not win arguments
|
||
Colin Mc |
|||
|
Posts: 763 (23-Jun-2009 14:49:38) |
Jim,
If you are in to PR10 whatever happened to PR9? It was said there was blood on the floor over that and at one time you rated CVFs chances at 50/50. Has the Typhoon numbers rejig solved things or was it just more salami? Cheers |
||
perfectgeneral |
|||
|
Posts: 671 (27-Jun-2009 00:38:20) |
A defence minister leaving means that the new lad in the job needs to take more time looking for savings. In the meantime the CVF programme has already spent
£1 billion. Harder to scrap and less to save.
Lord Palmerston, "The British Army should be a projectile fired by the Royal Navy".
|
||
StevoJH |
|||
|
Registered Member
Posts: 1150 (27-Jun-2009 04:12:03) |
perfectgeneral wrote: Add in that contracts have been signed and we can safely assume BVT got strict cancellation clauses........ |
||
Nauticus27 |
|||
|
Registered Member
Posts: 136 (28-Jun-2009 00:49:59) |
StevoJH wrote: |
||
Phil Gollin |
|||
|
Registered Member
Posts: 3719 (28-Jun-2009 11:30:22) Banned User |
Depending upon which set of lying politicans you believe in the problems are :
- how long (and "deep") is the "short-term" cut in real term defence funding (estimated at between 3 to 6-ish years depending on whose lies one is listening to), and - how long will a POSSIBLE recovery phase be (as far as I know no politican is even mentioning this period of pain. Things like Trident replacement and the aircraft carriers can be postponed a couple of years and slowed down a little - but their funding will inevitably impinge on the tail-end of the recovery programme. What BOTH lots of politicans are really looking for are short-term savings and mid-term reductions. Short-term means "manpower", and mid-term means slowing present procurement plans and selling off assets (if the market picks up). I can't really see how else the navy can respond other than to lose ships which aren't going to be "useful" to Afghanistan and have les than 6 or so years life left. Likewise, I can see the army losing quite a few people. The RAF is "hiding" behind the contract conditions for the Typhoon procurement, but sooner or later they are going to have to losebases and infra-structure at the very least. The combination of government lying over the funding of Ieaq and Afghanistan and the bankers quadrupling (most pesimistic) the national debt means that after Afghanistan the armed force will be a shadow of what they were. (And this applies to the Tories as well as the present idiots - not only would they have not stopped the bankers, but they will have to cripple the defence budget if they want to promise sufficient goodies to the electorate come next spring, despite being a shoe-in. The only difference is that traditionally the Tories are quite close to the army so the cuts might be slightly differently arranged.) To quote Corporal Frazer - "we're all DOOMED - DOOMED I say !". It's not overly dramatic, it is mere economics. . |
||