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Presence Ship: A hybrid STOVL carrier, LHD, missile cruiser

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westwords2020	Presence Ship: A hybrid STOVL carrier, LHD, missile cruiser	Lead	[-]
Posts: 323 (13-Jul-2008 13:45:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I forget the name of the ship type here but it is based on Admiral Owens hybrid cruiser/carrier/LHD. A variant was proposed by GAO for the presence mission some years ago. In any event, the vessel would feature a half length layout like the Jean Barte but also include a well deck and have superstructure admidships with AGS and 256 VLS cells forward. The flight deck would be angled on either side with skijumps for F-35Bs and have a hangar deck below. It was put forth that such a ship would be able to land 7-800 troops via LCAC, MV-22, CH-53K, launch a strike with F-35B STOVL or engage with TacTom and AGS. A possible opponent nation would have concerns about such a vessel cruising off it's coast during times of crisis. The GAO of all organizations, wanted sixty such ships built at the cost of scrapping several ships. Anybody out there is welcome to flesh out this design.? I have considered an air group of twenty some with six MV-22, two CH-53K, four AV-22 gunship tiltrotors and eight F-35Bs. The ship offers flexibility but is it a design that would meet future (post 2020) needs? I need to hunt up the book meantime to get the details right.
Joshua Kintner		#1	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 453 (14-Jul-2008 17:03:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think the need is bigger for a stealth littoral type combat mission. The main threats to world security right now are terroism, piracy, and these little dictators here and there. My ship would basically incorporate room and facilties for up to 200 special forces troops plus their gear and equipment, an internal hangar deck with three-four Pavelow helicopters, and a few gunships, plus about 16 VLS cells for a mix of tomahawk and ESSM cruiser and anti-air missiles. It would probably be a catamaran type ship too. Maybe include one or two submerisbles.
westwords2020		#2	[-]
Posts: 324 (17-Jul-2008 13:26:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I agree with you about these threats but small and lightly armed ships are inadequate to deal with rogue states that have modern diesel/AIP subs and FACs with supersonic missiles. I think Adm. Owens wanted to give the tinpot dictators and others a big headache. When one, two or more presence ships are off your coast, the element of unpredictory actions by such ships gives the bad guys a Big Problem. There is nothing saying these ships cannot embark hundreds of special forces vice 800 troops. The guns provide fire support and fire support missiles might finally be provided with a resurected quad pak Polar system based on the guided MLRS if the USN ever gets over it's Not Invented Here syndrome. With nuclear propulsion for unlimited range and an air defense/misssile defense system a squadron of such ships would be an even bigger problem for our rogue states. As for disembarking our special forces, swimmers could deploy using ASDS launched from a moon pool. Heavy reliance on STOVL UCAVs would be another headache for the bad guys. I didn't propose an armada of these ships, the GAO (?) did.
johnestauffer		#3	[-]
Posts: 810 (17-Jul-2008 15:57:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There are some interesting designs that are similiar in concept in the revised/updated version of Friedman's USN Destroyers.
westwords2020		#4	[-]
Posts: 325 (18-Jul-2008 00:57:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have that book by Freidman and have seen those designs including the Aviation Cruiser, massed VLS batteries, integrated electric drive and S and X band phased array radars. The AC also has an LCAC in a well deck. However it is slow at around 26 knots sustained if memory serves me right and an F-35B doesn't have a short deck run with skijump. Provision is made for twelve helos or a smaller number of V-22 variants.
seasick	$$$$	#5	[-]
Posts: 4868 (18-Jul-2008 03:13:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Even when the USN had cold war budgets they didn't have money for ships like this. If you want to annoy someone just have vessels transiting out to and back from deployment pass by and make a lot of noise while they pass. Have a Arleigh Burke as it is passing by lock on military aircraft of the country and illuminate them with a AN/SPG-62 for a while. The illumination thing will irritate the leaders of the air farce fairly quickly.
westwords2020		#6	[-]
Posts: 326 (18-Jul-2008 12:30:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I found the GAO report that I had copied from the Internet and I have to get the papers together but it examined future naval force structures and I was refering to it here from memory. The presence ship as they called it would have construction priority and be based on Adm. Owens concepts which were a product of the Post Cold War era as was the GAO report. Anyway, the GAO to obtain 60 presence ships would have retired without replacement the entire Burke/Ticonderoga classes without replacement, cut the LHA/LHD and big deck carrier forces all to finance these ships they were proposing. As to roles and missions please chalk that up to an imperfect memory of what the report said but I think they felt that such ships would show the flag and intimidate possible US enemies or have the capacity to deal with them presumably by assembling these building blocks into a force of such ships. I have to read that report and Adm. Owens' book when I can find it.
westwords2020		#7	[-]
Posts: 328 (19-Jul-2008 21:32:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It was a CBO rather than a GAO report. Here is the link which is still availible. http.//www.fas.org/man/congress/2000/cbo-n/s4.htm
westwords2020		#8	[-]
Posts: 329 (20-Jul-2008 09:29:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I found Adm Owen's book High Seas buried in my book collection. His proposal was not the half length flight deck concept I borrowed from the Jean Barte but was a CVS with a long island superstructure and flight and hangar deck that had a 512 VLS missile 'farm' in the bow. Guns went someplace, perhaps on the island or on sponsons though that would be difficult perhaps, given the size and weight requirements for AGS. Picture only includes CH-46 of which twenty would have been embarked and a well deck for LCACs. If actually built today, we would be looking at MV-22 tiltrotors, an Osprey escort perhaps the gunship version of the BA 609 civil tiltrotor, a flight of six eight F-35Bs, a couple of MH-60Rs and EV-22s for organic AEW plus some compact UCAVs with STOVL capability as designed by LockMart with lift fans in the wings vice the forward fuelsalage in the JSF STOVL for bombing/surviellance missions. Owens called his ship a littoral supremacy ship and the CBO proposal called it a 'presence ship' though to afford it the cruisers and DD-21 would have been eliminated, the amphibs greatly decreased and big deck carriers cut to six from eleven and I guess mass production would be needed for sixty ships. USMC lift capacity would remain the same as each presence ship would carry 500 some Marines and their equipment. For a bigger force in the thousands, additional presence ships woud be called in. The missile farm makes me think of the stillborn arsenal ship. An Aegies combat system would have been used and have created an air defense and ABM shield for US/Coalitio forces. Owens proposal called for operating ships by 2020 in his book that was published in 1995.

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