Diesel-Eletric subs for USN/RN?

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FreeloaderUK	Diesel-Eletric subs for USN/RN?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 93 (10-Apr-2008 13:45:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	the Red Navy uses diesel-electric subs- most modern navies do. but the USN & RN do not. apparently US carrier task forces are particularly vulnerable to diesel electric subs- in one wargame a swedish diesel-electric sub managed to 'sink' the USS Ronald Reagan & I remember a couple of years back a North Korean diesel-electric sub managed to get close to a US carrier. apparently although nuclear subs are gettng quieter all the time- diesel electrics although dont have the same performance are quieter again. so do you think the USN or RN would go for diesel-electrics? possibly for short range stealth operations?
BenRoethig		#1	[-]
Posts: 1748 (10-Apr-2008 14:02:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Probably not, but 20-30 for homeland defense might not be a bad idea. Also, do note that wargames are not always realistic combat scenarios. Its training.
FreeloaderUK		#2	[-]
Posts: 94 (10-Apr-2008 16:13:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	the RN did have a few diesel-electrics but were de-commissioned in 1994- defence cuts. the subs themselves were sold to Canada & they werent that old. obviously diesel-electrics are not ideal for long range operations- but for closer to home action- they are far more cost effective than nuclear.
drunknsubmrnr		#3	[-]
Posts: 1294 (10-Apr-2008 16:19:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Having actually hunted USN carrier task forces in SSK's, I can assure you that they are not terribly vulnerable to diesel-electric boats, or even AIP boats. I can also assure you that SSK's are not cost-effective if you're already paying for the infrastructure required to support SSN's or SSBN's. Kevin Normal human beings don't get dolphins.
splott		#4	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 75 (10-Apr-2008 17:54:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I guess SSK:s are better at waiting for the target to come to them rather than going after the target. In other word there are places where SSK:s have an advantage but it's not in blue water ops. But at the same time HMS Gotland did seem to have some success over in San Diego.
drunknsubmrnr		#5	[-]
Posts: 1295 (10-Apr-2008 18:32:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	SSK's do have advantages in some situations. Those situations rarely come up for the RN and USN. Kevin Normal human beings don't get dolphins.
emc		#6	[-]
Posts: 3652 (10-Apr-2008 19:12:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	splott wrote: I guess SSK:s are better at waiting for the target to come to them rather than going after the target. In other word there are places where SSK:s have an advantage but it's not in blue water ops. But at the same time HMS Gotland did seem to have some success over in San Diego. A friend -- who was an ASW officer in USN frigates -- described diesel-electric submarines as "mobile mine-fields." I don't know if this characterization was original, or he had gotten it from somebody else. In the natural world, some predators are "ambush predators," which wait for their prey to get close, and then pounce on them, for example trap-door spiders. These are analogous to diesel boats. Other predators can stalk their prey, possibly for hours, getting as close as needed for a successful attack, like many cats. These are analogous to nuclear boats.
Dave Bender	USN or RN would go for diesel-electrics	#7	[-]
Posts: 6401 (10-Apr-2008 21:12:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The USN can afford nuclear powered submarines so that is what they will continue to use for operational missions. Purchase of 1 or 2 diesel boats for training purposes only is possible. If the RN faced a naval threat in European waters then I would expect them to purchase some SSKs for coast defense. Right now they are unnecessary.
kell553		#8	[-]
Posts: 775 (10-Apr-2008 22:42:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	But at the same time HMS Gotland did seem to have some success over in San Diego. While Gotland did rack up a considerable record while playing here for 2 years, that must be tempered by the fact she was typically used on the ASW range; which geographically constrained all of the players to a small section of ocean just off the Channel Islands. Kind of hard for a sub NOT to get a kill when the Surface ship can't leave a 10x10 mile box.
Michael Hoddy		#9	[-]
Posts: 177 (11-Apr-2008 04:45:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The USN is a power-projection navy fighting far from its own shores, and SSN's are ideally suited for long-range power projection missions, whereas diesel-electrics or AIP's are not. As long as there is no direct naval threat to the North American coastline, you will not see non-nuke subs in the USN. Even then, the American coasts do not have any of the pass-through chokepoints for sea traffic or enclosed seas that make diesels an effective weapon in the Baltic, GIUK gap, Persian Gulf, and Taiwan Strait and Kuriles. As far as the British- it would require a revival of the barrier/chokepoint SSK mission of the Cold War (and a comparable threat), or the need to project power in the immediate region in greater numbers than the UK SSN fleet. Last Edited By: Michael Hoddy 11-Apr-2008 04:53:27. Edited 1 times.
Theodore		#10	[-]
Posts: 8451 (11-Apr-2008 07:43:25) Wheat Boss Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	BenRoethig wrote: Probably not, but 20-30 for homeland defense might not be a bad idea. Homeland defense? Against who? The drug-running minisubs from Colombia?

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Diesel-Eletric subs for USN/RN?

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