As we all know, there are still two South Dakota class BB sisters still with us. The USS Massachusetts, BB59 and USS Alabama, BB60 are both open as museum
ships. But, is there any differences between these two sisters? Does one have more 40mm Bofors or 20mms than the other does? Are the radars the same? Any
other differences?
BB59 & BB60
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 Ed |
BB59 & BB60 |
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Posts: 2243 (14-Feb-2008 12:00:02) |
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Sachmle |
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Registered Member
Posts: 17 (14-Feb-2008 15:53:37) |
From: DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN NAVAL FIGHTING SHIPS, Vol. IA, pp. 109-12. From: DICTIONARY OF AMERICAN NAVAL FIGHTING SHIPS, Vol. IV, pp. 265-66. It appears that Massachusetts was 10" longer, and 6' 11" shallower, .5kts slower, and had 13 more 20mm AA. |
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New Hampshire Battleship Lover |
Current defferences | ||
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Posts: 1826 (14-Feb-2008 17:37:18) |
I believe Massachusetts had some of her light AA guns removed when she went into mothballs. She also has no catapult; it was removed right after the war so
she could land helicopters.
She also has only two props now, the other two were removed in her latest drydocking, and are displayed right outside the entrance to the museum. That is impressive! Having never visited the Alabama, I don't know what post war changes she has had. |
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jlyons97 |
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Posts: 1285 (14-Feb-2008 18:15:19) |
New Hampshire Battleship Lover wrote:
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BOBC 59 |
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Posts: 1076 (14-Feb-2008 19:33:35) |
BB59
during the war had the most AA suite of all BBs. alot were removed when she went in overhaul after the war she also had a quad 20mm i think there was one other Bb that had the installed some where in my files there a is amt of 20 and 40MM countbut I cant for the life of me remember where they are just recently out of hosp so going to take some time for recouperating NUFF SAID BOBC
For those that fought for it,Freedom has a taste and meaning ,The protected will never know.
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BOBC 59 |
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Posts: 1077 (14-Feb-2008 19:50:23) |
I found it 40mm 18quads 20 mm 32 mounts single 1 twin mount 20mm and 1 quad 20 mm as of aug 44 when we left bremerton
NUFF SAID BOBC of course ships company was alway doing some thing with AA suite even adm Straford had unauthorized repairs made at some hatches as he was a BIG MAN so they could accomadate his size
For those that fought for it,Freedom has a taste and meaning ,The protected will never know.
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New Hampshire Battleship Lover |
Regarding the catapults... | ||
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Posts: 1828 (14-Feb-2008 22:24:04) |
I was on a tour of the ship and was told that the catapults were removed to enable helicopter opperations. Tour guides can make mistakes, so I can't vouch
for the accuracy here. but she definately has no catapults as she sits currently.
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bager1968 |
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Posts: 2803 (15-Feb-2008 02:57:19) |
Sachmle wrote: That difference in depth is actually the difference between "standard" (no fuel or reserve feed water for the boilers) and "full" load conditions. |
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jlyons97 |
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Posts: 1287 (15-Feb-2008 04:27:30) |
New Hampshire Battleship Lover wrote: When 'Mamie' went out of commission there were no routine helicopter operations off ships. Besides, what helicopter there were could have been accomodated between the catapults. When there was a fleet helicopter available in numbers (1949) operation of fixed wing aircraft from battleships and cruisers ceased. Re museum docents, I volunteer at a railroad-centric transportation museum, that operates excursion trains on its 57 acre campus. Volunteers man the trains
to give narrations which includes, for one certain diesel locomotive, the observation that its engines are quieter than most because they are submarine engines. The engines are in fact GM engines, but the quietness business is of course nonsense. Some rumors die
hard.
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Ed |
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Posts: 2244 (15-Feb-2008 12:40:14) |
BOBC 59 is right, Massachusetts was one of two USN BBs to ever mount the quad 20mm mount. The other BB was Washington, BB56. I believe by the end of the war,
both Massachusetts and Alabama had standard displavcements over 42,000 tons.
I know that Big Mamie does not have an aircraft crane on the fan tail, as well as no cats. Yes, both of Big Mamie's five bladed outboard props were removed in dry dock. Alabama is in a coffer dam, which is what was used during her "dry dock", were any of 'Bama's props removed? Are there any interior differences between the two BBs? |
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bill jurens |
Changes in ships | ||
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Posts: 589 (15-Feb-2008 16:01:11) |
Yes, there are numerous interior differences between the ships. The engineering plant is somewhat differently arranged in the area of the forward evaporator rooms, for example, and there are some differences in the arrangements around the steering gear. Changes to the ventilation systems, etc. to the engineering spaces led to many other detailed rearragements on the 3nd and 3rd decks. There are more differences in the superstructure areas, some 'built in', and others due to modifications after the ships were built. Massachusetts and South Dakota were, in fact, overall probably more similar than Massachusetts and Alabama, with BB-59 actually being built from a set of drawings orginally prepared for BB-57. In detail form, none of the South Dakota class are, or ever were, close to identical. Bill Jurens. |
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BOBC 59 |
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Posts: 1078 (15-Feb-2008 22:21:41) |
the biggest diff between the bb57 n bb59 was 2 5/38 mounts 4 less barrels in a aa defence just for starters
nuff said bobc
For those that fought for it,Freedom has a taste and meaning ,The protected will never know.
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Theodore |
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Posts: 8425 (16-Feb-2008 00:42:17) Wheat Boss |
It appears that the catapults were removed from all of the fast battleships during their time in reserve (except Missouri, which lost hers while still active.)
The old battleships that survived in reserve may also have lost theirs, but the photographic evidence (that I've seen) is inconclusive. Some cruisers, even
prewar ships, also appear to have lost their catapults while in reserve. I'm not sure when this was done - probably as individual units were overhauled.
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Ed |
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Posts: 2246 (18-Feb-2008 19:17:36) |
What about the aircraft crane on the after deck? IIRC Big Mamie no longer has hers, but doesn't Alabama still have hers?
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Theodore |
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Posts: 8428 (19-Feb-2008 00:02:09) Wheat Boss |
AFAIK none of the North Carolinas or South Dakotas ever lost their stern cranes. The three survivors all retain their cranes. Of the Iowas - Iowa appears to
have lost hers in the late 1950s, before going back into mothballs; Missouri appears to have lost hers while in reserve. New Jersey still had hers when
reactivated for Vietnam; she and Wisconsin may have had theirs until modernization in the 1980s.
The cranes survived on battleships and cruisers after the removal of the catapults because they were useful in handling small boats and other cargo that might be loaded at the stern. These ships were designed for, and in some cases fitted with, large boat handling cranes amidships, but in many cases these were never fitted or removed in wartime because of weight and space considerations. However, in peacetime the ships could afford to keep the cranes, and as they were useful things to have, it made sense to retain the former aircraft cranes. |
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Ed |
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Posts: 2248 (26-Feb-2008 13:21:01) |
Looking at the BB Satallite pictures, Massachusetts and Alabama no longer have their aft airplane cranes.
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BOBC 59 |
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Posts: 1081 (27-Feb-2008 00:45:09) |
I got a pic of "Mamie taken a cupl yrs ago the shows her with her boat cranes in fact the are in operating condition as the are still being use by the
ship they are on the deck obove the 5/38 mounts
nuff said bob
For those that fought for it,Freedom has a taste and meaning ,The protected will never know.
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Theodore |
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Posts: 8432 (27-Feb-2008 04:48:34) Wheat Boss |
They're difficult to see on the satellite imagery, but they're there. A quick look at navsource brings up plenty of recent photos showing the aircraft
cranes.
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BOBC 59 |
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Posts: 1084 (28-Feb-2008 02:56:18) |
Theodore
You are right there is a pic on navsource that was taken in 2006 it does show "Mamie" with her aircrat crane its down near the bottom of the page NUFF SAID BOB
For those that fought for it,Freedom has a taste and meaning ,The protected will never know.
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BOBC 59 |
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Posts: 1093 ( 4-Mar-2008 02:38:41) |
According to the curator of BB59 the catapaults were removed at her 1952 dry dock period
NUFF SAID BOB
For those that fought for it,Freedom has a taste and meaning ,The protected will never know.
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