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Argosy23	Croatian navy news & discussion	Lead	[-]
Posts: 52 (11-Feb-2008 15:04:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	During the recent visist of our president to the Naval Institute which is designing these new ships, plans for building 12 new Coast Guard//HRM("Croatian war navy") were laid up. The 12 ships will be 8 new smaller patrol boats of around 35-40 meters in length, to replace the aging(and small) fleet of Mirnas(in HRM the class is known as Hrvatska Kostajnica class) that we now operate. The additional 4 will be built as corvettes of around 80 meters. Both designs will be designed with reduced RCS in mind. The plans were somewhat accelerated by a recent near-catastrophy when a turkish car-ferry ignited in flames just 13 miles off Istra(Istria), which showcased our complete incapability to properly patrol and safeguard our EEZ. Luckily, the oil spill was avoided. The 3 missile gunboats are currently undergoing repairs and modification, and the RBS-15 missiles are being upgraded and overhauled by swedes. Last Edited By: Argosy23 29-Apr-2008 11:46:29. Edited 1 time.
Kielland		#1	[-]
Posts: 2241 (11-Feb-2008 21:06:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That is very good news for, soon to be NATO member, Croatia. Keep us informed!
PK		#2	[-]
Posts: 676 (11-Feb-2008 21:44:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Certainly it's legitimate for Croatia to develop units of their own. But IMHO, there is strong competition to beat: Turkey - Yonca MRTP-33 for the small patrol boats (two of them in service for Albania), Singapore - Fearless Class or Canada-Kingston Class for the corvettes depending on focus of activity and money. Just my thoughts, of course..
Argosy23		#3	[-]
Posts: 53 (13-Feb-2008 15:08:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	PK wrote: Certainly it's legitimate for Croatia to develop units of their own. But IMHO, there is strong competition to beat: Turkey - Yonca MRTP-33 for the small patrol boats (two of them in service for Albania), Singapore - Fearless Class or Canada-Kingston Class for the corvettes depending on focus of activity and money. Just my thoughts, of course.. Sure, and there are more ships to choose then those 2, but in my opinion, this is the right path to follow. Anyway, the same shipyard that wil be producing OPVs will also be making front sections of french FREMM frigates. Libya has also signed a deal with Kraljevica shipyards for another 4 PV-30LS patrol boats, and will overhaul and service their fleet in Croatia. So, there's definately a market for made-in-croatia ships.
PK		#4	[-]
Posts: 677 (13-Feb-2008 21:17:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Libya has also signed a deal with Kraljevica shipyards for another 4 PV-30LS patrol boats, and will overhaul and service their fleet in Croatia. So, there's definately a market for made-in-croatia ships. Sure, I did not doubt that. Do you have additional info on the designs (Speed, Crew, Equipment etc.)? Or a link to the Naval Institute (the Kraljevica Shipyard seems to be offline)?
Argosy23		#5	[-]
Posts: 54 (14-Feb-2008 16:09:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Latest news suggest up to 12 smaller units, and up to 5 bigger corvettes. PK, I didn't understand, are you asking specs on Libya's PV-30LS, or about new croatian navy ships. I can provide some about the PV-30LS. As for web pages, Kraljevica's web page seems to be down. The Naval Insatitute's web doesn't contain any military content, the only which does is the BSO Split shipyards page. They were the yard mostly involved in submarines construction back in Yugoslavia. Now they are mostly into merchant ships, unless our goverment decides to bring back submarines. BSO Split was subject to taiwan's interest in the 90s, I guess taiwan was interested in gaining experience in building submarines or maybe interested in Lora SS(G)K design. Last Edited By: Argosy23 14-Feb-2008 16:20:26. Edited 2 times.
Argosy23		#6	[-]
Posts: 55 (23-Mar-2008 15:50:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It seems that Croatia has bought 2 of the Helsinki class missile boats from Finnland as a part of the Patria AMV purchase, for 6 million euros. The ships would/will be used to fill the gap untill the arrival of new warships. The specs for the new corvettes/frigates have been rewritten. The new plan calls for a class of 4-5 warships of around 90-120 meters in length, which brings me to the conclusion that Gowind 200 might be back in the game. If Kraljevica shipyard gets the deal for building bow sections for FREMM frigates, I think there's a good chance of Gowind 200 being sold to Croatia. There's also a domestical ship that is being designed, of which models were constructed, but there are no pictures yet. Last Edited By: Argosy23 23-Mar-2008 15:54:27. Edited 1 times.
Per Nordenberg		#7	[-]
Posts: 727 (24-Mar-2008 13:30:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Argosy23 wrote: It seems that Croatia has bought 2 of the Helsinki class missile boats from Finnland as a part of the Patria AMV purchase, for 6 million euros. The ships would/will be used to fill the gap untill the arrival of new warships. Good news! According to wikipedia it's the two Finnish Helsinki class boats FNS Oulu and FNS Kotka that have been sold to Croatia. They make sense since they are/were armed with the Swedish RBS-15 SSM and Bofors 57 mm Mk1 gun, which both are already in service in the Croatian navy. The ships will apparently be in service by mid-2008. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helsinki_class_missile_boat The RBS-15 missiles are also being upgraded to latest standard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_Navy I doubt though that the Swedísh Göteborg class corvette K24 Sundsvall is to be donated since she is one of two still in service in the RSwN, and AFAIK they are scheduled to be modernized and kept to 2020. Regards, Per Nordenberg Last Edited By: Per Nordenberg 17-May-1915 22:09:50. Edited 3 times.
Argosy23		#8	[-]
Posts: 56 (24-Mar-2008 13:39:08) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	With 2 Helsinkis bought, I do not think we'll see any Goteborgs bought by Croatia. I'm guessing that the 2 Helsinkis will replace the two Kralj class guboats, not supplement them. The Kralj class is in need of a expensive refit and new engines, which is probably too much to pay for a limited time in service. Thus, I think that the Helsinkis will spend no more than 5-6 years in service with the Croatian navy, before being replaced with new corvettes/frigates.
Per Nordenberg		#9	[-]
Posts: 728 (24-Mar-2008 16:20:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Argosy23 wrote: With 2 Helsinkis bought, I do not think we'll see any Goteborgs bought by Croatia. I'm guessing that the 2 Helsinkis will replace the two Kralj class guboats, not supplement them. The Kralj class is in need of a expensive refit and new engines, which is probably too much to pay for a limited time in service. Thus, I think that the Helsinkis will spend no more than 5-6 years in service with the Croatian navy, before being replaced with new corvettes/frigates. The two Helsinki class boats in question are 22 resp. 23 years old, while the two Kralj/King class boats are only 16 resp. 7 years old (approx.) How can it be more economical to maintain these two older -ex Finnish boats in favour of the younger Kralj class? W/o an extensive refit and modernisation the -ex Finnish boats probably have, as you say, no more than 5-6 years of service left, but surely the larger and younger Kralj/King class has a better potential for modernisation and a prolonged service? Furthermore, according to the info about the Kralj Petar Krešimir IV on wikipedia Croatia will "modernize existing two units with the latest radar/sensors, more powerful engines and new Close-in weapon system-RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile surface to Air missile system giving King class added capability." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kralj_Petar_Kre%C5%A1imir_IV Regards, Per Nordenberg
Argosy23		#10	[-]
Posts: 57 (24-Mar-2008 17:42:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The problem with Kralj class is that it was never equipped to it's full design specs(and the third in class was scrapped). The engines are crappy, those found in the much older RTOP-21 Sibenik are still going strong despite the ship being 32 years old. The entire refit and the installation of new engines would cost much more then 2 used helsinkis, and would probably be used not that much longer. In that perspective, I see no reason not to replace 2 Kralj class gunboats with 2 helsinkis, and either sell or scrap Petar Kresimir IV and Dmitar Zvonimir. The modernisation plan wikipedia speeks of is true, however, in light of this purchase, I think it might be cancelled.

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