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Feb 27 17 5:47 PM
seasick wrote:The tactical nuke(s) should be dropped in to the bay and set to explode under about 50 feet of water. It will be more spectacular that way and spare the locals from to many gamma rays. I suppose we are talking about B61 nukes on the Nimitz. Is there a large lake in Japan that a B61 could be dropped in tosink to the bottom and explode, vaporizing all the water in one fell swoop.
Feb 28 17 5:08 PM
Feb 28 17 6:23 PM
gmg4rwf wrote:No, don't target Tokyo (and no the Japanese didn't have Radar) - there was a reason they didn't in the first place, the so-called 'Emperor' is not the Emperor he’s more like the Shinto ‘Pope’, Though that is a point about 04:00, Id make it more like 2:00, surface burst 50-60mile off Tokyo – see that? We’ll do it in your cities next- Berlin on the other hand BAAANG, Ok, whose left to take command? Let’s talk!
Mar 1 17 5:31 PM
Mar 1 17 5:38 PM
gmg4rwf wrote:"Here is what happens:First the F-14 squadrons arrive at Pearl Harbor at the same time as the IJN's first wave. They break up the attack. The IJN aircraft are blown out of the air with Sparrows and Sidewinders before they even realize the F-14 are there. Totally out classed the Japanese panic. In the chaos striking the Japanese defending many P-36 and P-40 fighters make it up in to the air. The other aircraft (A-6 and A-7) locate the Japanese carriers and attack. AGM-65B mavericks fired at the carriers penetrate deep in to the ships and explode. AGM-88 destroy the radars easily. Harpoons were fired at stand off range and hit the carriers easily. The left over fuel in the Harpoons after they hit start fires the Japanese can't put out. A-7 move in and hit the carriers with Mk20 rockeye II, and Mk83 bombs.
Shokaku, Zuikaku, Hiryu, Soryu, Kaga, and Akagi are wrecked beyond saving. Their escorts are shot up as the victorious A-6 and A-7 turn on them with their remaining weapons."
No: A few things you miss are;
1) The F-14 has AIM-54 Phoenix
2) She has no AGM-84 Harpoons as they were not available until the mid 80s with the A-6E WCSI & S-3B upgrades nor was the AGM-65F Navy Maverick or AGM-88 HARMs so she wouldn’t be carrying any in 1980, no more than Lexington or Enterprise would.
3) Even the slowest poorest preforming combat aircraft on the carrier (the S-3 Viking) can out-perform the best the Japanese have:
F-14s equipped with 4xAIM-54, 2xAIM-7 and 2xAIM-9s
A-6 & A-7s armed with gun pods and 2.75” rockets (mix of AP, HE and WP)
S-3s armed with Mk-83 or 84 Bombs
F-14, A-6 and A-7s intercept attack group. Engage fighters with missiles. Wait for first wave, leaving lead torpedo bombers (first few torpedoes were absorbed without major damage, it was follow-on torpedoes that hit areas where the torpedo bulges had already been hit that cause major damage – allow some hits for ‘justification - verification’ that attack was underway) all other aircraft are shot down. 2nd waive would be scrubbed as remaining (lead Kates not shot down) give warning of slaughter.
S-3s attack carriers, flying in at 450mph 8000ft above Zero’s Max celling. and bomb carriers.
SH-3 Sea Kings patrol for subs.
Mar 1 17 5:45 PM
Mar 1 17 5:56 PM
Mar 1 17 9:35 PM
gmg4rwf wrote:~~Nether ever would the USN of 1980 allow the japanese to actually bomb american ships in Pearl Harbour. No, then there is no attack and THEY are the aggressors who attacked Neutral Japanese ships on a ‘training exercise’ in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. The attack must be allowed to start, then eliminated with minimum damage – a few torp holes in the bulges (it’s what they were there for) Killing the planes is easy, they get catched long before they reach Pearl and destroyed. A F14 carry a cannon... with that alone a F14 can down 20-30 Kate or Val-Bombers from safe distance. catched? And no, they could not shoot down 20-30 each with guns, how much ammo do you think they carrie, about 5-6 bursts, and there is no reason not to use the A-7s as fighters, they can far out perform even the Zero and have an internal M-61 as-well. the carriers are absolutly helpless... the USN knows exactly how vulnerable the japanese are, so maybe one missle for each ship (to start a fire and cripple them), then the bombers attack and (with only 33% hit chance) easily destroy the carriers, tankers, cruisers... maybe the DD are more difficulty to hit. For them they could use missles. japanese DDs used Linoleum (shortage of wood), so they burn nicely because of missle fuel and are doomed (near the nirvana, tankers, carriers, all ships they could refuel from are gone). By the way, the USN will also send some bombers to wake - including a fueling tanker... and sink the japanese ships here, too. They do not have air launched missiles – not equipped yet and there is no reason to sink anything but the carriers – not a threat – minimum casualties.
Mar 7 17 1:24 AM
Mar 7 17 5:09 AM
Mar 7 17 6:01 AM
Mudfladdy wrote:seasick wrote:The tactical nuke(s) should be dropped in to the bay and set to explode under about 50 feet of water. It will be more spectacular that way and spare the locals from to many gamma rays. I suppose we are talking about B61 nukes on the Nimitz. Is there a large lake in Japan that a B61 could be dropped in tosink to the bottom and explode, vaporizing all the water in one fell swoop. They are so powerfull?
I am no expert in nukes... if they do an airbust at 04:00 AM, after radioing OPEN that they will do that, say 20km outside in the bay of Tokio - that would be REALLY impressive.
A submerged explosion would cause a little tsunami, lots of destruction.
As the japanese still are the brutal bastards and most of the men (1980 WW2 is over since 35 years) either had themself as young persons fought them or had relatives lost by the japanese, i expect they would not care much about some radiation casutlies in tokio. (just guessing). Same with germany.
But how many nukes did a Nimitz-class carry in the early 80ties (if that isn´t a secret)
Mar 7 17 4:53 PM
Mar 8 17 5:05 AM
Mar 8 17 4:01 PM
seasick wrote:I wouldn't bother with Phoenix for attacking the IJN aircraft. I would arm them with 6 AIM-7, 2 AIM-9, and a full load of 20 mm. Drop tanks if possible. The A-7 would be armed with a pair of AIM-9 to pick off IJN CAP over their carriers. Sorry about AGM-65B, same thing I said but replace it with AGM-62 Walleye. No IJN radar, so more Paveway bombs. Mk83 bomb with the Paveway kit should do the trick. The Mk 84 bomb would be quite a shock for the Japanese. It would go through the flight deck on a IJN carrier. Rockeye cluster bombs would really do a number on a WW2 destroyer.
One thing you're going to have to watch out for is combat persistence. Despite the great technological gap, compared to an F-14 or A-7, early WW2-era monoplanes such as the A6M, B5N and D3Y are quite manoeuvrable. The earlier claim that an F14 with a full 20mm M61 magazine can shoot down 20-30 Japanese aircraft each, I would take with a pinch of salt. In 'Factory' mode, doable, but in the real world of Air-to-Air combat very doubtful. Another earlier claim of 'sawing' through Japanese aircraft with a single burst because they flew in close formation, again, big pinch of salt. Any experienced group of pilots will take evasive action as soon as combat is joined, no matter what their mission.
The pride of the 1980 USN fighter wings might have no need to fear the Japanese carrier airgroups, but I would still suggest not bothering with getting in and knocking them down; shoot down as many as possible with sparrows and sidewinders from a far enough range, radio Pearl Harbour a warning (with speed, direction, bearings etc) and let the USAAC fighters and shipboard AA do the rest.
The priority should be sinking the entire Japanese strike fleet, as publically as possible.
It should also be the Nimitz's captains job not to win the WW2 that is part of his history, but to make sure as little as possible of it actually comes true. Remember that while the ConUs was more or less untouched, much of Asia and most of Europe was devasted, depopulated, destroyed, raized, raped, plundered, murdered, . . . pick any or all from that list.
And finally Lets remember rule number one of War. Once the fighting has started, through the plan out the window . . .
Mar 8 17 8:33 PM
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