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RN Aircraft Carriers, 60s

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Lord Lieutenant	RN Aircraft Carriers, 60s	Lead	[-]
Posts: 655 (12-Feb-2012 13:46:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Remove this ad Hi Does anyone know of a site, or know the aircraft carriers that were in RN service from 1962-65 and what their airgroups were?
kev 99a		#1	[-]
Posts: 1157 (12-Feb-2012 14:44:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	You can get that information from Wikipedia fairly easily.
Lord Lieutenant		#2	[-]
Posts: 656 (12-Feb-2012 19:13:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Not really, the air group information is not detailed enough.
SpazSinbad		#3	[-]
Posts: 288 (12-Feb-2012 20:58:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Perhaps these sites helpful: http://www.fleetairarmoa....rm_history/history.shtml [http://]adf-history.com/?cat=7 & ([http://]alturl.com/4a4ko) [http://]cid-cbcd63d6340707e6.skydrive.live.com/home.aspx?sa=822839791 & [http://]youtube.com/user/bengello/videos & [http://]filefront.com/user/SpazSinbad
bager1968		#4	[-]
Posts: 6127 (13-Feb-2012 08:45:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	This site has lists of RN carrier air groups (except for Victorious): http://www.btinternet.com....walton/navy/rn-cv3.html Info for Victorious: http://www.fleetairarmarc...et/Ships/Victorious.html ; http://www.seavixen.org/i...afrbbal&pageId=56720 ; http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/pdf-docs/victor11.pdf & http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/pdf-docs/victor12.pdf The RN had the following carriers in service in that period: HMS Ark Royal: Docking and essential defect repair at Devonport March to September 1961. Refit at Devonport 4 January to 13 November 1964. 1962 - 1963 800 sqn. 12 Scimitar F1 890 sqn. 14 Sea Vixen FAW1 849 sqn. C flt. 4 Gannet AEW3 815 sqn. 8 Wessex HAS1 Ships Flight 1 Whirlwind HAR5 1965 - 1966 803 sqn. 12 Scimitar F1 890 sqn. 14 Sea Vixen FAW1 849 sqn. C flt. 4 Gannet AEW3, 1 Gannet COD4 819 sqn. 8 Wessex HAS1 Ships Flight 1 Whirlwind HAR5 HMS Eagle: Undergoing modernization at Devonport Dockyard 30 Oct 1959 to 14 May 1964. Repairs at Devonport 24 May to August 1965. 1964 - 1966 800 sqn. 14 Buccaneer S1 899 sqn. 16 Sea Vixen FAW2 800 sqn. B flt. 4 Scimitar F1 (Airbourne-refueling) 849 sqn. D flt. 4 Gannet AEW3, 1 Gannet COD4 820 sqn. 5 Wessex HAS1 Ships Flight 1 Whirlind HAR5 HMS Victorious: Refit 1962-1963. Oct 1960-Nov 1961 ..... 825 Westland Whirlwind Oct 1960-Feb 1962 ..... 892 De Havilland Sea Vixen Oct 1960-Feb 1962 ..... 849B Fairey Gannet Apr-May 1961 ..... 805 de Havilland Sea Venom Dec 1961 ..... 815 Westland Wessex Jul-Aug 1963 ..... 809 Blackburn Buccaneer Aug 1963-Jun 1967 ..... 893 De Havilland Sea Vixen Aug 1963-Jun 1967 ..... 801 Blackburn Buccaneer Aug 1963-Jun 1967 ..... 849A Fairey Gannet Aug 1963-Jul 1965, Apr-Sep 1966, Jan-Mar 1967 ..... 814 Westland Wessex 1966-67 801 sqn. 10 Buccanner S.mk2 893 sqn. 10 Sea Vixen FAW2 849 sqn. A flt. 4 Gannet AEW3, 1 Gannet COD4 814 sqn. 8 Wessex HAS1 HMS Hermes: Major refit at Devonport 24 February 1964 to May 1966. 1960-1962 804 sqn. 8 Scimitar F1 890 sqn. 12 Sea Vixen FAW1 849 sqn. C flt. 4 Gannet AEW3 814 sqn. 5 Whirlwind HAS7 Ships Flight 1 Dragonfly HR5 1962-1964 803 sqn. 8 Scimitar F1 892 sqn. 12 Sea Vixen FAW1 849 sqn. B flt. 4 Gannet AEW3 814 sqn. 5 Wessex HAS1 Ships Flight 1 Whirlwind HAR5 HMS Centaur: Refit at Portsmouth 29 August 1960 to 3 March 1961. Docking and essential defect repair at Portsmouth 21 November 1962 to February 1963. Refit at Portsmouth May to November 1963. Paid off December 1965. 1961 - 1963 807 sqn. 8 Scimitar F1 893 sqn. 9 Sea Vixen FAW1 849 sqn. A flt. 4 Gannet AEW3 824 sqn. 8 Whirlwind HAS7 1963 - 1965 892 sqn. 9 Sea Vixen FAW1 849 sqn. A flt. 4 Gannet AEW3 815 sqn. 5 Wessex HAS1 Operating as Commando Carriers (LPH) were: HMS Albion: Conversion to amphibious-assault helicopter carrier at Portsmouth Dockyard 17 December 1960 to August 1962. 1962-1964 845 sqn. 12 Wessex HAS1 846 sqn. 7 Whirlwind HAS7 1965-1972 848 sqn. 16 Wessex HU5 & 1 Wasp HAS1 HMS Bulwark: Conversion to amphibious-assault helicopter carrier at Portsmouth Dockyard January 1959 to 23 January 1960. Refit at Devonport 17 December 1962 to 3 December 1963. Refit at Plymouth 3 September 1965 to 22 April 1966. 1960 - 1964 848 sqn. 13 Whirlwind HAS7 1964 - 1966 845 sqn. 13 Whirlwind HAS7 Who'd have thought 30 years ago Hermes would still be in active service when Invincible was at the breakers yard? Last Edited By: bager1968 13-Feb-2012 08:50:29. Edited 2 times.
Lord Lieutenant		#5	[-]
Posts: 657 (13-Feb-2012 20:25:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Badger you're a star that is perfect. Thanks very much mate. I'm reading Hennesy's Secret State (the revised edition) and it has a document that specifies that in around 1964-1965 the FAA had 79 carrier strike aircraft. I cannot get these numbers to add up. The document also states that CVA-01 carriers would maintain this number. I understand that two such carriers were planned. Would they have operated on their own or would Eagle, Ark or Victorious have operated alongside for a time?
Obi Wan Russell		#6	[-]
Posts: 809 (13-Feb-2012 20:43:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Remove this ad Lord Lieutenant wrote: Badger you're a star that is perfect. Thanks very much mate. I'm reading Hennesy's Secret State (the revised edition) and it has a document that specifies that in around 1964-1965 the FAA had 79 carrier strike aircraft. I cannot get these numbers to add up. The document also states that CVA-01 carriers would maintain this number. I understand that two such carriers were planned. Would they have operated on their own or would Eagle, Ark or Victorious have operated alongside for a time? The CVA project began at five carriers to replace the existing fleet on a one for one basis, at least up to 1962. As the costs rose it dropped to four carriers by 1963-64 and by 1965 it had dropped to three ships. According to Denis Healy himself, there was never a drop below three ships as three was the minimum needed to maintain one ship forward deployed at any one time (one deployed, one in refit and one working up in home waters prior to deployment). At the time of cancellation in 1966 only the order for CVA-01 was before the cabinet, with some longer lead items for CVA-02 also to be ordered. This is probably where the idea of only two ships comes from. The plan was for CVA-01 to complete around 1972 replacing Victorious, Ark Royal and Eagle were both to be 'Phantomised', ark in 67-70 as historically, and Eagle during her 1968 refit (much less work required). These two ships would then combine with CVA-01 for the early to mid 70s to form the RN Strike force, Ark being replaced by 1976-78 by CVA-02 and Eagle as late as 1984 by CVA-03. Hermes future was uncertain, in the mid to late 60s there were efforts to sell her to Australia to replace Melbourne (in hindsight they should have taken her, considering her longevity!). The two Commando Carriers Albion and Bulwark would probably continued in service into the early 80s and been replaced by something akin to HMS Ocean, albeit a pair of.
NewGolconda		#7	[-]
Posts: 6395 (13-Feb-2012 23:13:14) Multi-Board Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Any source for the "efforts to sell Hermes in the 60's? Your Text Signature ...
bager1968		#8	[-]
Posts: 6136 (14-Feb-2012 03:18:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Obi Wan Russell wrote: Hermes future was uncertain, in the mid to late 60s there were efforts to sell her to Australia to replace Melbourne (in hindsight they should have taken her, considering her longevity!). I would question the "mid-1960s" part, considering her major refit at Devonport 24 February 1964 to May 1966, which could be called "Buccaneerization". The RN had intended to operate her as an attack carrier until 1972, when CVA-01 would replace both Victorious and Hermes. After 1968 I could see... but even then she was intended to replace Albion as a commando carrier (and did in 1971), so I can't see it then, either. I suspect that someone has confused Hermes with Centaur... which WAS offered to Australia when decommissioned in 1965 (or shortly after)! Originally, the RN had planned to convert Centaur as a commando carrier to join Albion & Bulwark, with the intention of having a fleet of 3-4 CVA and 3 LPH... but with the cancellation of the CVA-01 program it was decided to only have 2 LPH, and the conversion was canceled. Who'd have thought 30 years ago Hermes would still be in active service when Invincible was at the breakers yard?
SpazSinbad		#9	[-]
Posts: 290 (14-Feb-2012 07:07:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Wikipedia says this (which I can affirm from general knowledge from those days): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hermes_(R12) "...Proposed transfer to Australia 1966 review indicating that Hermes was surplus to operational requirements and was offered to the Royal Australian Navy as a replacement for HMAS Melbourne. In 1968, Hermes took part in a combined exercise with the RAN, during which the carrier was visited by senior RAN officers and Australian government officials, while RAN Skyhawks and Trackers practiced landings on the larger carrier.[4] The offer was turned down due to operating and manpower costs...." [4] Hobbs, Commander David (October 2007). "HMAS Melbourne (II) - 25 Years On". The Navy 69 (4): 5–9. [http://]adf-history.com/?cat=7 & ([http://]alturl.com/4a4ko) [http://]cid-cbcd63d6340707e6.skydrive.live.com/home.aspx?sa=822839791 & [http://]youtube.com/user/bengello/videos & [http://]filefront.com/user/SpazSinbad Last Edited By: SpazSinbad 14-Feb-2012 07:09:58. Edited 1 times.
HMS Pinafore	Centaur Airgroup	#10	[-]
Posts: 2123 (14-Feb-2012 10:39:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The Trolls have been busy again, and have come up with another figure for Centaur’s airgroup – actually they have got two alternative figures! One source states that 892 NAS operated a total of 12 x Sea Vixen FAW.1, while a second source gives the total as 13 x Sea Vixen (& 15 aircrews). This would give a total airgroup of either 21 or 22 aircraft of all types.
Obi Wan Russell		#11	[-]
Posts: 810 (14-Feb-2012 19:10:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Once the 'Healy Axe' had been wielded in 1966 all the RN's carriers were 'surplus to requirements, Hermes having just completed a major refit was neither here nor there, she was a carrier and had to go. CVA-01 was nominally to replace Victorious in 1972, Hermes would be expected to go (by sale abroad given her youth and good condition) around the same time if for no other reason than to free up ship and aircrew to man the new carrier. By 'mid 60s' I was referring to the period post 1966 so perhaps should have said late 60s really.
edl32		#12	[-]
Posts: 64 (15-Feb-2012 05:02:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Remove this ad This is in reply to Lord Lieutenant's Secret State post, but first a thank-you to Desert Sailor for this link: http://ethos.bl.uk/Home.do. Ian Spellar's thesis on RN Amphibious Forces is accessible there, it's free, and it ought to be of interest to almost everybody on this board. It seems - see page 172 - that the figure of 79 embarked strike aircraft was established in 1957 or so and that it included 38 Sea Vixens and 41 Buccaneers (and / or Scimitars). So it probably wouldn't match any sum of the carrier air goups bager1968 posted above.

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RN Aircraft Carriers, 60s

RN Aircraft Carriers, 60s