If Britain is using shipping to reel the U.S. into the Entente then it adds a lot of emphasis to the problem. We are examining what is required to keep the U.S. neutral rather then how to get agricultural commodities to Germany.
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Dave Bender |
Shipping has been mentioned before. | ||
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Posts: 6819 (24-Jul-2008 18:51:19) |
Everything has been mentioned at least once.
If Britain is using shipping to reel the U.S. into the Entente then it adds a lot of emphasis to the problem. We are examining what is required to keep the U.S. neutral rather then how to get agricultural commodities to Germany. |
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PhilJD |
flagging ships as US or a company for the purpose. | ||
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Posts: 633 (24-Jul-2008 19:28:39) |
do you know what - and I have no idea personally - but I would be very very very very very very VERY surprised if this 'thought' had not occurred in
OTL and there must have been an extremely good reason why it would not work (and no b/s about WW not allowing it please).
Regards
Phil
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Dave Bender |
Extremely good reason why it would not work | ||
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Posts: 6821 (24-Jul-2008 19:59:01) |
The Lusitania sinking was the reason. After that the U.S. became too hostile towards Germany to make any sort of economic cooperation possible.
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Roller007 |
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Posts: 1257 (24-Jul-2008 20:03:49) |
Actually it was before Lusitania. France stated they would not recognize a re-flagged ship if it had been previously German and seize it. It was believed, and
Jim has stated that as well, that the RN would tell the French where the ships were for France to seize them.
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Dave Bender |
France stated they would not recognize | ||
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Posts: 6822 (24-Jul-2008 20:15:34) |
All the better. T.F. Ryan undoubtedly knows about the French position. If the Wilson administration is forced to chose between France and T.F. Ryan then the
French are toast.
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New Hampshire Battleship Lover |
Thinking about US BC's again | ||
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Posts: 1858 (24-Jul-2008 21:06:46) |
If, as I suspect, a decently armored battlecruiser is wanted in a hurry, then I see one option:
The guns, turbines, and other long lead time items for the New Mexico's are already on order, I think. Postpone them, snap up their guns, armor, and turbines for a series of battlecruisers. Use heavy armor, and make them slightly longer than the New Mexico's, but with ony 3 triple turrets. You have enough guns and turrets in the pipeline for 4 ships, but would need to order more engines and armor. Even so, I think that the irst two would be fairly fast to get in the water, by battlecruiser standards. |
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PhilJD |
'blockade fleet' | ||
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Posts: 634 (24-Jul-2008 21:08:19) |
there was NO blockade fleet off the US coast in LT timescales - when the war first broke out the British Caribbean squadron did maintain a close patrol off the
US coast in order to catch any German ships trying to escape back to Germany - but this was withdrawn following US protests in OTl long before the LT timescale
kicks in.
reflagging - yes the French position is well known. But the proposition here is that a company would be set up specifically to circumvent the Hague conventions protecting belligerent trading capabilities - if it were that simple then it would have been done and all the Hague conventions are a waste of time and effort. Salamis incident - doesn't make the UK look bad, it makes Bethlehem steel look like a business that made a product that they would not get paid for so they looked for an alternative buyer - they approached the UK, not the other way around. Sinking the blockade fleet - putting aside the 'blockade fleet' part - if I were the US then the fact that Germany showed that it could project effective naval power to offshore New York and land raiding parties would be a bigger worry (but hey, this is not my story) - especially given their newly 'proven' prowess in naval combat. Blue/Fox - like any journalist, the story takes on the spin the author wishes.
Regards
Phil
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Dave Bender |
Germany showed that it could project effective naval power | ||
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Posts: 6823 (24-Jul-2008 21:29:35) |
The nearest German naval base is over 3,000 miles from the American east coast. The RN have naval bases at Hailfax and Bermuda. That makes the RN a much greater concern then the Kaiserliche Marine. |
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PhilJD |
power projection | ||
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Posts: 635 (25-Jul-2008 01:01:43) |
The Monroe doctrine based around nothing in the western hemisphere without US 'agreement' has just been tossed into the bin by the EG action - Germany
has just proved that it can and will act in its own interest within US waters, not only that but using US territory and waters to further its own political
ends. That it can send a small fleet across the Atlantic in secret from an almost landlocked sea and across one of the busiest pieces of ocean. It has also
shown that it is willing to provoke public opinion by landing a raiding party in the East coast - 'just how big a raid could it do and against whom'
would be the question that the serious newspapers will be asking - and when was the last time 'that' question came up in the US public opinion?
The cooler heads of the US government and military ought to be tearing their hair out and not succumbing to the 'gosh, look what a magnificent performance they did' stories from the newspapers. Halifax/Bermuda - the RN has been operating in those waters since long before the US existed, and barring the WoI, 1812 and blockade runners during the US civil war, the 'relationship' has only improved (slowly) over the preceeding 100 years. If I can misquote the New York Times headline during Victoria's diamond jubilee "we are a part of this Greater Britain that seems destined to guide this world" - 'guide' is the wrong word, but the 'greater britain' is the important point in the quote.
Regards
Phil
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Syphon1 |
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Posts: 551 (25-Jul-2008 13:17:28) |
Dave Bender wrote:I agree whole heartedly Dave. GB would tell the French to to stick there policy up their proverbial and not to piss off the head Yanks primary backer. I can just see it now several of Ryans ships seized followed by GB distancing itself from France and maybe even a quiet peace while leaving the french to hang. At present GB has a lot more to lose and not that much to gain.
We satisfy our endless needs
And justify our bloody deeds
In the name of destiny
And in the name of God
David
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