There have been a couple of changes to both stories but nothing major enough to re-post the entirety.
The Dark Colossus will commence again next week for a run of eight new episodes.
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Nick Sumner |
Combined Nach dem Tag/Dark Colossus Timeline |
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Posts: 581 (16-Jun-2008 02:25:37) |
In a bid to make the story more accessible I would like to present a combined timeline of the two stories. As previosly mentioned the Dark Colossus
story is one continuation of the Nach dem Tag timeline - there are others sketched out, but not yet developed.
There have been a couple of changes to both stories but nothing major enough to re-post the entirety. The Dark Colossus will commence again next week for a run of eight new episodes.
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Last Edited By: Nick Sumner 17-Jun-2008 02:40:23.
Edited 2 times.
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Nick Sumner |
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Posts: 582 (16-Jun-2008 02:28:15) |
16th December 1914 - The Battle of Flamborough Head.
Set free from their moorings by bad weather, drifting mines in the gap opposite Scarborough in the minefields off the north-east coast of England cause Admiral Hipper's battlecruisers (which are returning from the Scarborough Raid) to slow down drastically in their headlong dash to rejoin the van of the High Seas Fleet. In consequence they are intercepted outside the minefields by the sixth Battle Squadron of the Grand Fleet under Vice Admiral Warrander and the battle cruiser Squadron of the Grand Fleet commanded by Admiral Beatty. Despite being outnumbered and suffering several hits Hipper is able to extricate his force and it returns to base with only minor damage. The incident causes disquiet in several senior flag commanders of the Royal Navy about the effectiveness of British shells. This is reinforced by the results of the Dogger Bank and Falklands actions and the matter is bought to the attention of Winston Churchill, the First Lord of the Admiralty and Jackie Fisher, the First Sea Lord. They are both alarmed at the situation and all steps are taken to remedy it as quickly as possible. 31st May 1916 - the Battle of Jutland By this time some 80% of the ships of the Grand Fleet have been re-equipped with the new 'Greenboy' shells. The action is a decisive British victory, seven German capital ships are lost for the loss of three British battlecruisers. What remains of the High Seas Fleet does not venture into the North Sea again. The U-boat campaign 1917 to 18 The defeat of the HSF and its subsequent reluctance to leave harbour except for Baltic operations then frees large numbers of British destroyers and light cruisers for merchant Escort and convoy duty making the task of the U-boat's significantly more difficult and their successes significantly more limited than they might otherwise have been. 6th February 1922 - Successful conclusion of the Washington Naval Disarmament Conference The principal differences from the OTL treaty are as follows.
Winston Churchill, the chancellor of the Exchequer, is jeered in the House of Commons as he announces in the UK budget that the pound sterling will remain 'off gold' (ie its value will not be linked to gold) for 'The foreseeable future'. 1st June 1929 Upon the Labour victory in the general election Oswald Mosley is given the post of Lord privy Seal, his brief is to coordinate the effort against unemployment. 16th of May 1930 Disillusioned with his role and finding himself unable to cause a fundamental shift in the attitudes and outlook of the Labour Party Mosley resigns from the Cabinet. He uses the following months to build a Parliamentary following advocating Keynesian monetary reform, loan financed public works and massive 'state action', all of which would be accompanied by a reorganisation of the cabinet and civil service intended to improve governmental efficiency. He is careful to establish contact with figures from across the political spectrum and to cultivate a small group of parliamentary rebels within the Labour Party, but attempts to impose his policies upon the cabinet meet with little success. His agitation culminates in February 1931 with a speech in Edgbaston attacking the Cabinet. In May he considers leaving the Labour Party but is dissuaded from so doing. 27th October 1930 - Conclusion of the first London Naval Disarmament Conference The British delegation seeks to prevent the start of the construction of new capital ships other than those agreed to in the Washington Treaty (which is due to expire at the end of 1931) until 1936, however despite the recession, agreement is elusive, France and Italy refuse to sign and Japan will only agree to extend the treaty until December 1934. This is agreed but no new treaty is signed and the time limits on clauses regarding other types of warship are not extended. 31st July 1931 The Economy Committee on National Expenditure, chaired by Sir George May issues the 'May Report' It warns that in 1932 the government will have a large budget deficit that can only be closed by radical budget cuts. Publication of the report causes an economic and political crisis in Britain. 25th August 1931 Ramsay MacDonald's Labour government loses power as the retrenchment proposals irrevocably split the cabinet, he resigns as Prime Minister the following day, and a Conservative-Liberal emergency government under Stanley Baldwin takes office on the 27th August 1931. 7th September 1931 MacDonald resigns as party leader and the contest for the Party's leadership is between Mosley, championing a radical change of policy and Arthur Henderson, a veteran of Labour's establishment. Henderson's belief that the Party cannot be reformed in time to avoid defeat at the next election causes him to inform Mosley on the 30th that he will not contest the leadership. 15th September 1931 The British Labour Party returns Mosley as leader. 22nd October 1931 The British general election returns Stanley Baldwin's Conservative - Liberal Alliance to office. Labour however, gain more than 30 seats from the Conservatives and are now the largest single party in the House of Commons. 13th December 1931 Winston Churchill, a former First Lord of the Admiralty and Chancellor of the Exchequer dies in a traffic accident in New York. 3rd July 1932 The second British general election within a year brings the labour party to office with a working majority in the House of Commons. 8th May 1934 - Collapse of the second London Naval Disarmament Conference Japan does not sign, neither does France or Italy; the Treaty is effectively worthless and though the British state their intention to produce treaty limited designs in the hope that other navies will follow suite they have no option but to resume new capital ship construction in 1935. The United States is the only other power to produce designs limited by the tenets of the treaty. July 1934 The Austrian emergency September 1934 At the London Imperial Defence Conference (called to formulate an Empire policy to the rapidly changing world situation after the collapse of both the London Naval Conference and the Geneva Disarmament Conference). The announcement that in the opinion of the UK government the prospects for war have become much more likely than they had previously appeared causes surprise and consternation among the delegates. After some debate there is general agreement that the rising power and latent expansionism of Germany, Japan, Italy and the Soviet Union are all real and immediate threats. The delegates return home from the conference bearing the unwelcome news that the British Empire must begin to prepare itself once again for the possibility of war. December 1934 The Abyssinian crisis 8th September 1935 Senator Huey Long, the former Governor of Louisiana is shot in an assassination attempt in Baton Rouge. He is severely injured but survives. 6th March 1936 Remilitarisation of the Rhineland by Germany. 29th July 1936 The Labour Party is returned to power in the British general election with a slightly reduced majority. Oswald Mosley has reached the peak of his popularity. 10th December 1936 Abdication of King Edward VIII. 19th June 1938 England win the football World Cup for the first time. 30th October 1938 Oswald Mosley resigns as Prime Minister following the 'Alvarez Affair', a scandal concerning his relationship with the wife of a junior member of the Paraguayan legation in London. Clement Attlee, deputy leader of the Labour Party becomes the British Prime Minister. 3rd September 1939 War declared by Britain and France on Germany after the German invasion of Poland two days previously. 8th April 1940 The German attack on Norway and Denmark begins. 10th May 1940 The Germans attack in the West. 2nd - 3rd June 1940 Battle of the Loffoten Islands, the first in which the opposing fleets do not catch sight of one another. Action is conducted entirely by aircraft. 22nd June 1940 France surrenders. 13th August 1940 'Adler Tag' (Eagle Day) the beginning of the German air offensive against southern England. 7th September 1940 The Germans switch their attacks to London. 15th and 17th September 1940 Following night raids by aircraft of the Royal Navy Air Arm acting in coordination with aircraft from RAF bomber command on the German fighter bases in the Pas de Calais there is a significant reduction in the number of fighter aircraft the Luftwaffe is able to commit to escorting air raids on London. In consequence the Luftwaffe bombers suffer extremely heavy casualties. Enraged Hitler cancels operation Sea Lion and orders the winding down of the air campaign against southern England. A limited campaign of night raids are undertaken during late September and early October but these are bought to a halt by the end of the month. 18th September 1940 A Cabinet meeting is held at number 10 Downing St to discuss Britain's financial position. It is revealed that Britain is down to her last three hundred million dollars in gold and foreign currency reserves. This means that it will be impossible for Britain to continue the war into the next year without securing other means of finance. As the United States is the only entity capable of authorising lending on the scale that Britain needs it is immediately apparent that the continuation of the war effort can only be undertaken with American support. While the incumbent President, Franklin Roosevelt, has shown himself to be sympathetic to Britain's position he is in the midst of a presidential election and neither of the other two candidates (Wendell Wilkie and Huey Long) seem inclined to offer their support. In consequence the continuation of the war becomes dependent on the outcome of the United States presidential election. 5th November 1940 Wendell Wilkie is declared the winner in the US presidential election. His narrow victory is largely put down to a split in the Democrat vote caused by Senator Huey Long's decision to run as a third-party candidate drawing off enough votes from Franklin Roosevelt to throw the election to the Republicans. 7th November 1940 Using neutral Swedish channels the British government seeks terms from the Nazis. 18th November 1940 The Treaty of Greenwich which brings hostilities to an end between Britain and Germany is signed on the quarterdeck of the German cruiser Prinz Eugen while the ship is moored in the Thames. 22nd June 1941 Operation Barbarossa commences. 30th June 1942 Fall Blau (Operation Blue), the German drive into the Caucasus commences. 23rd July 1942 Elements of the Imperial Japanese Army and Navy commence operations against the Soviet Far East. Fighting is bitter and the Japanese make little progress initially, however the situation in western Russia is critical and leaves no resources to reinforce the Soviet armies in the east. 28th August 1942 Start of operation Lehrer, German amphibious landings on the eastern shore of the Black Sea combined with an airborne landing at Tblisi. The operation is a success, the city is secured by 11th September and Baku is captured by 15th September. Soviet forces make a final stand in a pocket around Grozny and Astrakhan but surrender on 5th October. 22nd December 1942 Hitler declares victory in the war in the east. Cut off from its oil supplies the war machine of the Soviet Union grinds to a halt and the country begins to break up, Once Baku and Grozny have fallen the USSR is doomed by shortages of fuel and the attendant dislocation of communications and transport. Furthermore the inability to sustain a war on two fronts down the immense distances of the Trans Siberian Railway is critical in exacerbating the strain. The disintegration of the Soviet polity into minor satrapies and their subsequent coalescing into larger post collapse economic units is rapid and a direct result of the loss of the fuel producing areas.
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NoOneFamous |
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Posts: 1282 (16-Jun-2008 02:41:08) |
Very interessttting
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JNiemczyk |
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Posts: 6496 (16-Jun-2008 03:43:45) |
Looks exciting.
19th June 1938 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Truly a dystopia! Living in the UK will be almost unbearable for Scots, Welsh and the Northern Irish, especially when every BBC Sport programme will mention 1938 and 1966 about every five minutes!
Scotland - Land of the deep fried Mars Bar.
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trekaddict |
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Posts: 964 (16-Jun-2008 05:41:15) |
JNiemczyk wrote: Agreed, considering that in 1966 WE should have won!
Bond: Do you expect me to talk? Goldfinger: No, Mr Bond, I expect you to die! There's nothing about you that I don't already know!
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borys68 |
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Posts: 2583 (16-Jun-2008 09:09:29) |
Ahoj!
The 19th June 1938 event also made laugh out loud! But why not a repeat of the English "success" of 1950? Why not: "Britain takes part in 1938 football World Cup for the first time and looses 1:2 to Dutch East Indies or Norway"? Borys |
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PhilJD |
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Posts: 626 (16-Jun-2008 13:13:38) |
would be intrigued to know the terms of Greenwich?
regards Phil
Regards
Phil
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Nick Sumner |
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Posts: 583 (16-Jun-2008 17:50:19) |
Jan, Boris, these are cruel taunts! I should perhaps have mentioned that as well as combining the Nach Dem Tag and Dark Colossus timelines I was also throwing in the Hand of God story as well, in which England actually wins the World Cup four times, in 1938, 1962, 1966 and 1990. England were both churlish and arrogant OTL in the early 1930s when they refused to take part in the early World Cups on the basis that 'we would win too easily'. In TTL the administration of Prime Minister Oswald Mosley sees the opportunity to enhance national prestige and bullies the FA into letting the England team play in the 1934 and 1938 world cups. In TTL 1934 was a bit of a shock to the English, who discovered that they weren't quite as clever as they thought and only placed sixth in a field of 16. They take the competition far more seriously the next time around and win it. (From their OTL international statistics England were actually one of the best teams in the world in the 1930s, only Italy in this timeline are as impressive, but in the matches played between Italy and England, England tended to win, so this is far from being as ASB as it might at first appear!) Of course by now TTL English football would be in the same parlous condition that it is OTL and there would probably be even more 'weeping wailing and
gnashing of teeth' in the England camp because in OTL, 40 years of not doing very well in world cups has meant that the English now wearily accept their
team's failings, TTL this would be a far more bitter pill to swallow.
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Nick Sumner |
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Posts: 584 (16-Jun-2008 17:58:36) |
Phil,
The Treaty of Greenwich is basically a nonaggression non-interference pact, it follows the OTL Hitlerian view that Nazi Germany and the British Empire could coexist quite peacefully as long as the British didn't interfere in Germany's backyard (Europe). It is also very pragmatic because it is pretty much all that Germany can get being not in physical possession of the British Isles.
There would be some freedom of navigation clauses such as German warships having the right to traverse the English Channel but generally it would be pretty vague.
For all that it does represent a humiliation for Britain and will fuel German hubris, I fear
you will have to continue reading to see how that plays out!.
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JNiemczyk |
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Posts: 6497 (16-Jun-2008 18:17:32) |
I should perhaps have mentioned that as well as combining the Nach Dem Tag and Dark Colossus timelines I was also throwing in the Hand of God story as well, in which England actually wins the World Cup four times, in 1938, 1962, 1966 and 1990. In that case the Scots will probably have all voted for the SNP in 1992!
Scotland - Land of the deep fried Mars Bar.
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trekaddict |
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Posts: 965 (16-Jun-2008 19:53:25) |
Nick Sumner wrote: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Bond: Do you expect me to talk? Goldfinger: No, Mr Bond, I expect you to die! There's nothing about you that I don't already know!
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Nick Sumner |
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Posts: 585 (16-Jun-2008 20:32:57) |
trekaddict wrote: It' s always gratifying when your audfience screams out loud.
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trekaddict |
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Posts: 966 (16-Jun-2008 20:37:25) |
Nick Sumner wrote: Luckily I have Hearts of Iron 2 DDA installed. Be prepared to face massed German Airborne Forces.
Bond: Do you expect me to talk? Goldfinger: No, Mr Bond, I expect you to die! There's nothing about you that I don't already know!
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Casus Frankie |
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Posts: 55 (17-Jun-2008 02:45:32) |
And shall I assume that, in "Rugby football", England is winning the 5 (or 6)-Nations Tournament at least one every two years ?
(another reason for Scotland to vote SLP) Frank |
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Posts: 1713 (17-Jun-2008 15:54:20) |
Nick Sumner wrote: Terms and conditions.
The fact that you needed to know was not known at the time that the now known need to know was known, therefore those that needed to advise and inform the Home Secretary perhaps felt the information he needed as to whether to inform the highest authority of the known information was not yet known and therefore there was no authority for the authority to be informed because the need to know was not, at that time, known or needed.
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Nick Sumner |
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Posts: 586 (17-Jun-2008 17:35:25) |
Casus Frankie wrote: The progress of English International rugby has not been as inept as that of English football so I'd mostly leave it alone - but if I were to change anything it would be the results of the 1999 and 2007 Rugby World Cups. England had a serious chance of winning the 2007 Trophy, it really turned on one refereeing decision when the England try by Mark Cueto was disallowed - I'm not disputing the decision, the decision was correct, it was an exceptionally good bit of refereeing - but it took four minutes of deliberation with the fourth official looking at the video feeds from every possible angle to determine that a sliver of one of the England players boots was out of play making the try illegal. If the referee had just been a fraction less sharp eyed that try might have been allowed and the game might have turned out very differently. England have had so many bad refereeing decisions go against them it would be nice to see a bad refereeing decision for once going their way!
I would also change the results of the final of the 1999 World Cup, now don't get me wrong, Australia were the best team in the tournament and deserved their win, but it would have been wonderful to see the French repeat the Gallic wizardry they showed in demolishing New Zealand in the semi-final and doing the same to Australia!
Speaking of bad refereeing decisions - one last thing I would change, just for the heck of it, in the 1991 final I'd have David Campese penalised for that cynical professional foul on Peter Winterbottom when Campo deliberately knocked the ball forward because Winterbottom had Underwood outside of him and an almost clear run to the line. I'd have the referee award a penalty try to England, forcing the game into extra time.
I would then have Australia win it anyway, they were the best team in the 1991 tournament by far - but for my
money, their defeat of England will always be tarnished by that foul, they deserved a clear and unambiguous win, and mouth Almighty Campese deserved to look
like a twerp.
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Nick Sumner |
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Posts: 587 (17-Jun-2008 17:42:30) |
trekaddict wrote: S'funny you should mention that...
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JNiemczyk |
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Posts: 6503 (17-Jun-2008 22:28:16) |
Casus Frankie wrote: Actually we have quite a good track record with regards to the 5 and 6 Nations. It's something we can actually beat England at. Worth staying in the
Union just for that.
Scotland - Land of the deep fried Mars Bar.
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Pengolodh |
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Posts: 1714 (17-Jun-2008 22:50:34) |
JNiemczyk wrote: Because by fielding four different teams, competing against each other, any and all of the four teams are weaker than a single, British team would have been. Most of the time, the Welsh, NI and Scots teams will not be strong enough to have a chance of their own in any international competitions, but they serve to syphon off good players from the English team. So having four teams in international competitions helps the other nations.
The fact that you needed to know was not known at the time that the now known need to know was known, therefore those that needed to advise and inform the Home Secretary perhaps felt the information he needed as to whether to inform the highest authority of the known information was not yet known and therefore there was no authority for the authority to be informed because the need to know was not, at that time, known or needed.
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JNiemczyk |
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Posts: 6506 (17-Jun-2008 23:14:51) |
It must be some kind of conspiracy by Johnny Foreigner then. A diabolically fiendish plan that plays to the nationalistic feelings of the four Home Nations.
I suspect that any UK side would be made up of one Scotsman, one Welshman, one Ulsterman and the rest English.
Scotland - Land of the deep fried Mars Bar.
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trekaddict |
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Posts: 972 (18-Jun-2008 05:48:38) |
JNiemczyk wrote: oh noes! Our cunning plan has been discovered! Run!
Bond: Do you expect me to talk? Goldfinger: No, Mr Bond, I expect you to die! There's nothing about you that I don't already know!
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