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tassilo27 |
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Posts: 95 (16-May-2008 03:11:56) |
I'd also think that the primary threat ship would in fact be the Yavuz, and as such would require something a little bigger than 8"/55s to
fight against.
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delcyros |
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Posts: 1748 (16-May-2008 07:55:37) |
You cannot uparm & up-protect Kilkis for a standup against Yavuz. Lighter torpedocrafts have to deal with this thread. The old 12"/45 -even if
supplied with a new shell likely will not defeat even the upper side armour of Yavuz if You allow any room for target angles. And Kilkis will always find
herselfe badly outgunned by Yavuz, unsurprisingly for a ship beeing twice as large.
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Dave Bender |
Primary threat ship would in fact be the Yavuz | ||
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Posts: 6496 (16-May-2008 13:24:17) |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverige_class_coastal_defence_ship
Sounds like a 1932 version of the Sverige class coast defense ships are required. You might be able to purchase the 28.3cm/54 naval rifles and triple turrets from the 3 cancelled German Panzerschiffe. Historically Germany used them on the Scharnhorst class BCs because they were available. But I think that Germany always wanted those ships to have 38cm main guns in twin turrets. If a paying customer comes along they might be happy to part with the 28.3cm weapons. The German 28.3cm/54 was very powerful for its size and weight. |
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delcyros |
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Posts: 1751 (16-May-2008 21:50:58) |
The 28.3cmL54 was a deliberately politically choosen weapon. Even with this weapon, which is a good deal larger than the 12"/45 twin mounts, the Kilkis
still will find herselve in deep trouble against Yavuz. It will only have four to six 11"ers versus 10 on Yavuz. And the 11"/54 will have trouble to
pierce calibre thick armour plates as those of Yavuz at normal obliquities. Yavuz guns, however, will have less problems to defeat 9" armour plates
(Harvey, not KC). Finally, the Kilkis cannot absorb that much damage. Sheer size helps Yavuz, which holds all possible advantages on her own. It requires
basically either an old british 15"/42 or better a new french 13"/50 or larger to give kilkis some credible chance.
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Dave Bender |
In deep trouble against Yavuz | ||
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Posts: 6498 (16-May-2008 23:05:58) |
I agree. However the 28.3cm/54 naval rifle is powerful enough that Turkish and Italian dreadnoughts will take it seriously. That is the best you can do with a
cruiser size coast defense ship. Greece cannot afford proper battleships @ $75 million each.
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E F Draaijers |
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Registered Member
Posts: 195 (17-May-2008 14:15:00) |
Logic would suggest the primary threath would not be Germany, but Turkey, as some others already mentioned. This would mean the primary threath would be in the
form of both fixed and mobile gunplatforms near the Dardanelles, including a possible clash with the battlecruiser Yavuz, the fromer German SMS Goeben, which
had been refitted too and still carrierd ten 11 inch guns and was pretty heavily armored. The Greek old battleships were simply no match for such a vessel, no
matte how refitted, since they were too small to carry both serious ordonance and protection to challange the Turkish vessel.
The best option would have been to scrap these old vessels and install their guns in shorbased bateries near ports, or near strategic locations, while smaller coastal craft would provide a mobile defense with the known hit and run tactic typical for torpedocraft. This was much cheaper and much more logical for a new nation (Greece was only independant for some decades in 1930.), with little resources and wealth and completely dependant of foreign powers for its national security, for most sorts of international politics. As a minor power Greece could not opt for a large defencebudget, and certainly not a large and expensive fleet. |
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Dave Bender |
Shore based batteries near ports | ||
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Posts: 6501 (17-May-2008 15:48:11) |
During the 1920s war Greece was the aggressor. They wanted to annex the coastal region of Asia Minor which contained a lot of Greek settlements going back
3,000 years. If we assume that Greece still has plans to grab the Agean coast then they need mobile coast defense units. Hence my conclusion that coast defense
ships might be more useful then shore batteries. If / when the Greek army gets a toe hold in Asia Minor the coast defense ships can move across the Agean to
protect the beach head.
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E F Draaijers |
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Registered Member
Posts: 197 (17-May-2008 23:21:36) |
Dave Bender wrote: I agree with this partly, although the inclusuion of coast defense battleships is doubtfull, since these do not realy have the fightingpower needed to get
entangled with opposing small forces, while smaller gunboats and torpedocraft can do so. Most logical would be some dozen or so small gunboats with some medium
caliber guns for grounsupport and coastal defensive gunnery, in addition to the small torpedocraft operating inshore and between the many islands. Anything
much bigger than some 2000 tons is much likely considered too large to be effective in these confined waters.
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1Big Rich |
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Posts: 1861 (18-May-2008 16:34:26) |
I have to agree with Rick; the best that could be done is make them formidable coast-defense ships, and it would probably take a lot more than $5m.
Several years ago, Theodore posted one of his "Vanguard" threads, with Greece scrapping the former US pair and using their armament for new construction. I happen to have saved that thread (I wished I'd saved all his 'Vanguard' post, but I digress). If you'd like a copy, click my user name and send me a pm or an email, and I'll send it along. Regards,
Your Text Signature ...
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