Yuku free message boards

Moskit wrote:

---

"Given that the French group have the situational awareness"

There are of course many, many more assets available (to both sides) to aid situational awareness. If you were loking at this realistically and not purely within the confines of a hypothetical "wargame" the Russians would probably pinpoint the position of the French task force before or coincidentaly with the French couter-detection, but the Russian advantage in serious long range missile fire would most likely eliminate the CdG as a threat well before aircraft became relevant.

So now the issue becomes one of location!. I think the original premise of this was battlegroup to battlegroup to eliminate such external elements and just gauge the combat power of the naval groups themselves.

In that case the French group comes out the superior as it was designed to be an expeditionary force....as you rightly observed earlier Moskit the Russian doctrine does not make Kuznetsov an attack carrier in the same mould as a US or French CVN. The old Soviet doctrine had Kuznetsov serving the role of Fleet AAWCS with its powerful Mars-Passat air search radars directing Su-33's almost as 'first-stages' of some kind of ultra-long-range naval SAM system. Essentially its mission, in aviation terms, was Fleet Air Defence and support for its deployed submarine forces.

In summary then comparing a Kuznetsov plus limited screen and a de Gaulle plus equivalent screen is comparing apples and tomato's - both fruit but you dont use 'em the same!. It is also a simple fact that the French group has the advantage and always will as it was intended as an attack carrier from the start.

You say that counter-detection would happen at 'roughly the same time' Moskit?. What are you basing that on?. Legenda died when Cosmos-2421 went off-line back in Feb and wont be operational until the first Liana satellite is launched. No Bear 'fortunate' enough to stumble over the French group will survive long in the face of the Hawkeye/Rafale combination so getting an Uspekh track isnt going to happen either...what else do the Russians have that can establish a track in blue-water Moskit?. I cant think of anything?.

Even if there was some system in the Russian inventory that could track in blue water sufficient to get a firing solution to the P-700's and P-1000's those missiles are going to be very easy targets for an E-2 to track. Even P-700's low-altitude 'wolf-pack' profile is no defence to a look-down radar. Then, somehow, these great big high-profile missiles have to get through an Aster SAM screen developed entirely to defend against supersonic antiship missiles. Nope - dont rate the chances of even a single P-700/1000 making it through the French MEZ. I would be interested to know what makes you think the Russian long-range missiles would be a threat Moskit?.

Very good and what assets do your 20 years of experience tell you that the Russians have access to that can develop and hold an opposed POSID surface track at ranges enabling P-700/P-1000 long-range launch?. That is seeings that Legenda and Uspekh are both out?.

Seeings that neither Granit nor the modified Bazalt weapons have a sea-skimming profile (min alt IIRC is 100ft for P-700) what gives you the confidence that an anti-missile system developed to counter Yakhont, Moskit and a whole slew of advanced subsonic types like Aster is going to have the slightest difficulty in an intercept of big, lumbering, targets like Granit and Bazalt?.

Sincerely I cannot conceive of how you are getting to your 'simultaneous targetting solution' or how you are getting the confident prediction of the success of the Russian heavyweight antiship missiles despite French situational awares and cutting-edge antimissile defences?.