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USS Nevada question

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BB64	USS Nevada question	Lead	[-]
Posts: 582 ( 4-May-2008 11:02:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As well understand the battleship was able to get underway doing the bombing on Dec 7th 1941, there is something that had me wondering. According to some of the members...( Gene I hope you have answers lol) Most of the battleships boilers were cold ( I assume that the term use when they are not lit) except the Nevada as she was able to go full steam ahead while getting pounded. My question is this, was she due to leave port? I am asking this because she got underway quickly and did her crew cut her lines and raise her anchor? And.... did she had an ensign took command and then ground her to prevent being sunk at the channel?
bager1968		#1	[-]
Posts: 2918 ( 4-May-2008 12:08:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	From what I have read, the other ships were at minimum fuel use (1 boiler for ship's service "hotel load" operation), but Nevada's Captain insisted on keeping her at a state where she could generate maneuvering power at short notice (probably 2 boilers, but I don't know). This may be just another "Legend of Dec. 7th", as is the "Ensign took command" part. If any Ensign "took command", it was just long enough for a much senior officer to come up from his quarters. The action report of Nevada for Dec. 7, 1941 is here: http://www.history.navy.mil/docs/wwii/pearl/ph59.htm "It is considered that Lieutenant Commander Francis J. Thomas, U.S. Naval Reserve, the Commanding Officer during the greater part of the attack, is deserving of special commendation. This officer got the ship underway within forty minutes and headed down channel. Although the Nevada had been torpedoed and had received one or two bomb hits, Lieutenant Commander Thomas correctly decided that it was urgently necessary to get underway to avoid destruction of the ship due to the proximity of the Arizona which was surrounded with burning oil and afire from stem to stern. Through the action Lieutenant Commander Thomas coolly and calmly fought the ship despite many bomb hits and casualties. After the attack and for two days afterward, Lieutenant Commander Thomas performed damage control duties in a most creditable manner although near the point of exhaustion by his two days of strenuous work." Note that Nevada was anchored at the end of the line, with no other ship behind or outboard of her. This gave her maneuvering room the others lacked, especially after the first attack.
jlyons97		#2	[-]
Posts: 1466 ( 4-May-2008 16:22:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	BB64 wrote: As well understand the battleship was able to get underway doing the bombing on Dec 7th 1941, there is something that had me wondering. According to some of the members...( Gene I hope you have answers lol) Most of the battleships boilers were cold ( I assume that the term use when they are not lit) except the Nevada as she was able to go full steam ahead while getting pounded. My question is this, was she due to leave port? I am asking this because she got underway quickly and did her crew cut her lines and raise her anchor? And.... did she had an ensign took command and then ground her to prevent being sunk at the channel? Nevada was not due to leave port and did not have an anchor down; she was tied up with mooring lines to one of the F- moorings alongside Ford Island. She was not able to go to 'full steam' ahead without all boilers on the line (which they were not) but such a capability would have been of little use inside the harbor anyway. What she had was enough steam to back the engines to clear the berth (probably a 1/3 backing bell was all that was needed) and then go ahead (probably a 2/3 bell) to proceed out of the harbor. Her mooring lines were cut, CBM Hill getting a posthumous MOH for supervising this process on the foc'sle. As has been noted, all the BBs had a least one boiler on the line. Boilers have (had) a maximum number of hours they can be steamed before shutting down for what's called a 'bottom blow[down" where valves are opened in the lower drums to blow out impurities. In my day this was at least once a week. As has also been noted, Nevada had lit off a second boiler probably in the 4-8 watch to bring on line preparatory to shutting down the steaming boiler. My guess is the steaming boiler was the one not secured when the BBs came in on Friday, had been in use perhaps throughout much of that week, and was due for a bottom blow. So, by fortuitous coincidence two boilers were at or near full steaming pressure when the ship was moved. She probably could have gone on one boiler. The inboard BBs (Maryland and Tennessee) could have as well, but were of course penned in by the outboard ships which weren't going anywhere soon five minutes after the attack started. The acting CO (command duty officer) was a LCDR, appropriate for a BB. Ensigns however were CDOs on some of the DDs some actually got their ships underway, again as noted.
Gene Slover		#3	[-]
Posts: 6248 ( 4-May-2008 17:02:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	BB64 Of course any ship at PH could have a boiler lit off when tied to a pier or not. The only boilers that would have been "cold" would be a boiler that was in need of service or some type of repair or maintenance. If there was no boiler lit off then there would have been a steam line tied in from shore which provides about 150PSI of live steam which the ship uses to cook with, run various pumps and equipment and last but not least keeps the boilers at about 150 psi steam pressure. Blanket of steam. Which allows you to lite off pretty quickly. There are always any number of white hats and chiefs that can get a ship underway and sortie and of course Ensigns on up can do the same. Yes she was eventualy grounded because when she got out in the channel she came under heavy fire because sunk in the channel she would not completely block the channel but she would have probably closed off enough of the channel so only one ship could pass at a time. So whoever had the con did the best thing by grounding her as this kept the channel clear for the present and future. There were however a number of DD's that got under way and stood out of the harbor probably more than you might think. A DD can make about 18kts on one boiler and about 27kts with 2 boilers. Several of the DD's were able to make 25kts in the harbor and probably only had 2 boilers fired because that was all the crew that they had. Here again there are any number of white hats that can take the con and get a DD underway and out of any harbor as well. Not to mention Chiefs, Ensigns and up. Its not a requirement that a commander or captain have the con at any time.
Mike G	Nevada @ Pearl Harbor in "Day of Infamy"	#4	[-]
Posts: 262 ( 4-May-2008 20:21:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I checked into Walter Lord's book "Day of Infamy" and the Nevada's steaming conditions and command personnel are discussed. The book says; "A battleship needed two and one half hours to get up steam, four tugs to turn and pull her into the stream, a captain to handle. a captain to handle the whole intricate business. Yet here was the Nevada--steam up in 45 minutes, pulling away without tugs, and no skipper at all. How could she do it? She had certain advantages. It might normally take two and one half hours to get up steam, but two of her boilers were already hot. One was the boiler that normally provides power for a ship at her mooring. Ensign Taussig had lit a second boiler during the last peacetime watch, planning to switch the steam load later. Now his efficiency paid off. Both boilers had plenty of steam--giving Nevada 90 minutes' jump in getting away. Hard work in the fire room made up the difference." Four tugs might normally be neede to ease the ship out, but in a pinch their role could be filled by a good quartermaster. The Nevada had a superb one--Chief Quartemaster Robert Sedberry. It was the same with leadership. Captain Scanland and his executive officer might be ashore, but the spark was supplied by Lientenant Commander Francis Thomas, the middle aged reaervist who was senior officer present. As the damage control offficer, Thomas was down in central station when he heard that the engine room was ready. He put a yeoman in charge of central station, vaulted up the tube to the conning tower and took over as commanding officer."
jlyons97		#5	[-]
Posts: 1467 ( 4-May-2008 23:35:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Gene Slover wrote: BB64 Of course any ship at PH could have a boiler lit off when tied to a pier or not. The only boilers that would have been "cold" would be a boiler that was in need of service or some type of repair or maintenance. Disagree. The hours a boiler steams between firesides and watersides is finite, not infinite. To keep boilers on the line gratuitously when in port and not needed is simply not good engineering practice. If there was no boiler lit off then there would have been a steam line tied in from shore which provides about 150PSI of live steam which the ship uses to cook with, run various pumps and equipment and last but not least keeps the boilers at about 150 psi steam pressure. Blanket of steam. Which allows you to lite off pretty quickly. Not as quick as 15 minutes, which is what you have proposed, but certainly quicker than from cold There are always any number of white hats and chiefs that can get a ship underway and sortie and of course Ensigns on up can do the same. Yes she was eventualy grounded because when she got out in the channel she came under heavy fire because sunk in the channel she would not completely block the channel but she would have probably closed off enough of the channel so only one ship could pass at a time. So whoever had the con did the best thing by grounding her as this kept the channel clear for the present and future. There were however a number of DD's that got under way and stood out of the harbor probably more than you might think. A DD can make about 18kts on one boiler and about 27kts with 2 boilers. Several of the DD's were able to make 25kts in the harbor and probably only had 2 boilers fired because that was all the crew that they had. Here again there are any number of white hats that can take the con and get a DD underway and out of any harbor as well. Not to mention Chiefs, Ensigns and up. Yes if they are trained to do so; it does not come with you mother's milk. I challenge your 'any number' statement, but if you've got remembrances of such things. I'm willing to learn. Remember, the term 'white hat' refers to SKs, Corpsmen, RMs and all rest of the enlisted complement on board. Were you so trained on a DD, and did you practice this training? I''d like to think you did. Its not a requirement that a commander or captain have the con at any time. True enough. I saw chiefs and PO1s on my daughter's first ship (a Tiger cruise for me) standing watch as OOD underway. But it was not only not common practice in my day, it wasn't done at all. A shame really: any senior PO can be trained for this responsibility and any other person could be trained to be a conning officer. Having the Deck, and having the Conn, are two different things.

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