There is a reason why the US has a disproportionate industrial output per head - which in OTL is not matched by any nation in europe or elsewhere until after
WW2 - and that is down to mass production techniques (amongst others) - short shifting the earlier introduction of these techniques is such a huge
'butterfly' that it ought to be beyond the bounds of any reasonable fiction.
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 PhilJD |
USA mass production and general capacity | ||
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Posts: 614 (25-Apr-2008 13:33:26) |
Regards
Phil
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moltke1 |
Link | ||
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Posts: 479 (28-Apr-2008 09:17:47) |
You have found it?
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moltke1 |
Nice letter | ||
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Posts: 480 (28-Apr-2008 09:25:13) |
Hi Roller 007,
--- Dave, The economics of the time in German has any ship laid down and or ordered already paid for. You can't get the money back. You keep forgetting that. ALso you seem to think everyone will have the all see eye of hindsight to know what to do. They don't. The forces in LT are pushing towards needing more TBD's and more CL's and keeping to the already ordered BC's and DN's. Also the success of the HSF also suggests that they will get more men and resources which will offset many of the otl issues of construction time. Also means the army will have to do more, with less, but if the HSF is pulling its weight, they all will be winning. So cancelling orders already issued will not happen. So deal with what could be ordered next.... Oh, Uwe, nice letter and piece, can't wait for more. ---- Thanks for the compliment. The next update will be the next Main Story Part, though it is far from finished. Block and absolutely no time at the moment. Good point with the hindsight, IMO Dreadnought construction will more likely being strengthened than weakened. But it will need a good combination between BB/BC cruisers and destroyers. Once again, Jim ist demanded here. |
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moltke1 |
Already paid for | ||
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Posts: 481 (28-Apr-2008 09:32:23) |
Hi Dave,
---- Things work differently in a wartime economy. You may not get your money back. But the shipyards which were supposed to build the 9 dreadnoughts will receive no steel or workers for those projects. After the war ends construction of the 9 dreadnoughts will resume. The bottom line is that resources get re-allocated for the duration of the current conflict. --- I think you argue out of OTL view and knowledge not out of LT point of view. The DN's were the ones which have had hurt England hard, why stop construction of those winners. On Baden-Class, only two of those will be hopelessly insufficient against 10 ore more 15 incher on the Brit side. |
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moltke1 |
Cruiser to the Baltic | ||
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Posts: 482 (28-Apr-2008 09:36:11) |
Hi Jim,
--- Wonderful! Verrrry nicely done. You have even jaded o' moi feeling sorry for the prince! Ironically, the most likely CL for the Baron to give up would have been one w/o turbines. The RN just vetoed that transfer. --- thank you for your compliments. Will Letters write an answer? Which cruiser transfer had you have in mind? Frauenlob  ? Bremen . Or Stuttgart?
IMO the arguments of our Prince are valid. Are they not? |
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Dave Bender |
Two Bayern class insufficient | ||
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Posts: 6469 (28-Apr-2008 14:42:09) |
4 Bayern class BBs will also be insufficient against the 10 QE and R class dreadnoughts. Not to mention the additional RN dreadnoughts laid down in June 1915.
Wishful thinking will not change this equation.
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moltke1 |
Wishfull thinking | ||
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Posts: 483 (30-Apr-2008 09:37:49) |
Hi Dave,
yes, 4 Bayern are not enough. May be the replacements for:
IMO they will have to be built. |
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CJvR |
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Posts: 2152 (30-Apr-2008 12:52:37) |
Sure, provided they can get the money from the post war Reichstag and that the RN have not built another dozen 15"ers by the time they are completed. The
only Bayerns with a remote chance to fight in the war are the first 3-4 ones.
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Dave Bender |
Get the money from the post war Reichstag | ||
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Posts: 6474 (30-Apr-2008 14:55:05) |
The key point is "post war".
Historically the HSF did not participate in the war effort to a great extent, much less cooperate with the Heer for the duration of the war. So this is uncharted territory. But I suspect that Field Marshal Falkenhayn would be thrilled to have Baron Letters cooperate in destroying Russia. So much so that Falkenhayn would support essentially any naval program that Baron Letters desires in the post war period. The HSF could receive everything in the most recent naval law, modified as desired by Baron Letters to take advantage of recent combat experience. The Heer would also assist Baron Letters in pushing Tirpitz out the door. To receive Heer support the Baron needs to make a maximum effort against Russia right now. He also needs to temporarily forego laying down additional dreadnoughts, allowing the Heer to have the resources they need to win the current land war. Give up a little bit now. Get everything you want after the war is over. It beats the historical alternative of having your entire fleet scuttled at Scapa Flow. |
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Roller007 |
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Posts: 1157 (30-Apr-2008 15:58:37) |
Actually Uwe has a point.
With an active HSF actually doing something for the war it will get a lot more resources than historical. We know that by 1918 it had almost completed ( used loosely but having a ship being capable of being launch to me is almost ) the other two Bayerns, and most of the Mack's. What was a major delay for the projects was lack of support, lack of labour and lack of steel. Let's look at these now. Lack of support - In LT this is not the case. Lack of Labour - In lT this is not as much of an issue, moral is good in the yards, they haven't been turned off by the war which started almost after the loss of Blucher. The German's have also brought in US workers, its possible they could intice other workers from Neutrals around the CP. Wont be perfect but may make them use their labour better. Lack of Steel - No mater how you slice it, this is the big one. The amount of steel will still be a big issue and the KM will fight with the Heer for every ton. So how does Germany get more? Italy? Trouble is that England may try to restrict that economically ( buy it like they did the danish and demark food ) or they may try to restrict coal imports to Italy. What other countries can Germany get the steel from? The US? Would this be a possible shipment to italy for transhipment to Germany possibilty with Italy making money in the process? If Germany gets the Steel, then Uwe's idea could happen. Many of the yards showed points of brilliance in certain constructions, if what made those possible could be replicated, another 4 Bayerns, if laid down in 1915 could be done by 1917 along with the 4 Mack's. That makes things very difficult for Britain. We know she had the capacity to build more than the what she did but by 1917 she did not have the steel to build more than she did as a lot of it was being diverted to merchant production. Germany would have to support a modest U-boat production program as well. Mind you a few more outings like Force H did and their wont be a need for as many u-boats. |
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