Best fighter today to face against F-22 Raptor?

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chb2	Maverick?	#21	[-]
Posts: 539 (23-Apr-2008 20:19:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Desertfox wrote: As strange as it may sound I would pick the F-14D Tomcat, and if allowed the more advanced ST-21 development. The Tomcat can supercruise, is very maneuverable for its size and the ST-21 would have had thrust vectoring. Also the Tomcat had a very good long range camera and IR system allowing it the ability to circumvent the Raptor's stealth. Tie that in with some TV guided Mavericks, and the Tomcat mught just have a chance. Are you saying the Tomcat would try to get the Raptor with a Maverick?
Craiglxviii		#22	[-]
Posts: 73 (23-Apr-2008 21:31:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hang on... I think all you learned gentlemen have missed the most blindingly obvious choice, and to be honest until I read about the Maverick I forgot too. Airwolf! Sir Humphrey: Minister, Britain has had the same foreign policy objective for at least the last 500 years: to create a disunited Europe. In that cause we have fought with the Dutch against the Spanish, with the Germans against the French, with the French and Italians against the Germans, and with the French against the Germans and Italians. Divide and rule, you see. Why should we change now when it's worked so well?
Desertfox		#23	[-]
Posts: 71 (23-Apr-2008 23:42:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	BVR is where the Raptor rules, never close enough to be seen visualy or by IR its can pick and choose who to shoot, how to shoot and when to shoot and never see a responce, always able to avoid getting close thanks to a high cruise speed and supersonic agility......assuming its software does'nt crash mid flight. Which is why I would use a Tomcat. Its IR and TV sensors can pick up a Raptor beyond the Raptor's AMRAAMs range. It negates the Raptor's main advantage and the Tomcat does have the speed and agility to close the distance into WVR. Also if the Raptor is using radar, it is vulnerable to home on radar missiles, I know the Phoenix had a home on jamming mode, not sure on a home on radar. Now if the Raptor turns the radar off to mantain Stealth, the advantage swings to the Tomcat. The Tomcat will be able to find, track, and shoot at the raptor BVR, while the Raptor will not be able to do the same. Are you saying the Tomcat would try to get the Raptor with a Maverick? Whatever works, a TV guided Maverick is unjammable, and Stealth is simply worthless against visual sensors.
Getz		#24	[-]
Posts: 384 (24-Apr-2008 00:57:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	BenRoethig wrote: Getz wrote: The thing is, for 100 F-22's you can get nearly 200 Eurofighters - and they are hardly cheap aircraft... Not quite. The current fly away cost for the Typhoon is $122 million. The Raptor is $137 million. Both are in full production with a similar amount of airframes built. To be honest, I've read so many conflicting costs for the F-22 I have no idea exactly how much it costs - seeing as most of the prices I've read were some between $150m and $250m I plumped for the midldle figure. I'm happy t be corrected if I'm wrong. The point stands, however. The F-22 costs a lot of money and you can get capable, modern jet fighters for a lot less if you shop around.
taschoene		#25	[-]
Posts: 4202 (24-Apr-2008 01:15:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Desert Fox, that Maverick would be completely unable to track an air target. Ever looked though a Maverick seeker? It's like looking through a soda straw; the field-of-view is tiny compared to what it would take to track an aerial target. Plus, the missile's airframe isn't designed for high speed (it's just under Mach 1) or high agility. You'd have no chance in hell of getting an air-to-air kill with it. The Army claims to be able to get air-to-air hits with Hellfire, but only against very slow targets (opposing helicopters or UAVs), and that's a significantly faster and more agile missile than Maverick.
Desertfox.historypolitics...		#26	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 55 (24-Apr-2008 22:19:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	So you develop TV guidance for a Phoenix or AMRAAM. It's not an off the shelf solution, but it should be simple enough. To shot down a Raptor you need something that will track the Raptor, since radar guidance just isn't cutting it you need an alternative, and the only aircraft I can see, that is capable of acquiring and shooting at a Raptor at BVR is the Tomcat. Hmm, interestingly that is just the aircraft that Iran is using...
emc		#27	[-]
Posts: 3702 (24-Apr-2008 22:59:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Desertfox wrote: So you develop TV guidance for a Phoenix or AMRAAM. It's not an off the shelf solution, but it should be simple enough. To shot down a Raptor you need something that will track the Raptor, since radar guidance just isn't cutting it you need an alternative, and the only aircraft I can see, that is capable of acquiring and shooting at a Raptor at BVR is the Tomcat. Hmm, interestingly that is just the aircraft that Iran is using... I suspect that stealth will be (has been) defeated by signal processing. After all, there are commercially-available radars which detect clear-air wind shear. I also tend to think that the USAF would be rather idiotic to believe that stealth -- a theory well known to the Soviets (I've read translations of their open-literature tech papers) -- will remain a US monopoly.
splott		#28	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 80 (24-Apr-2008 23:05:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Emc are you saying that there are or will come radar systems that can detect stealth aircrafts/ships? Not that I doubt you I just like to know I understood you correctly.
Red Admiral		#29	[-]
Posts: 1859 (24-Apr-2008 23:14:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Emc are you saying that there are or will come radar systems that can detect stealth aircrafts/ships? The stealth is directed towards short wavelength radars currently used. Returning to longer wavelengths will nullify the effect of stealth because the waves aren't as directional. However, the longer wavelength gives poorer resolution so it is harder to tell where the target is exactly. Thats where the signal processing equipment comes in. A longer wavelength system will be lighter but requires a larger antenna which may be difficult to incorporate into a fighter unless some really clever design is used.
Desertfox.historypolitics...		#30	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 56 (24-Apr-2008 23:31:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Stealth can be defeated by even conventional radars. All you need is to have the transmitter and receiver in different places. But fighter radars can't use this technology yet, and since we are talking about 1 vs 1 fighter combat using current technology the point becomes mute. If you are to defeat the raptor you must use a different system.

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Best fighter today to face against F-22 Raptor?

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