Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

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bager1968	Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 2892 (16-Apr-2008 04:50:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/611346/the-weakest-link.thtml In Londonistan, the appeasement of radical Islamism is lurching ever more giddily into the realm of the surreal. Hard on the heels of the Appeal Court ruling that abu Qatada, bin Laden's right hand man and the most important al Qaeda operative in Europe, cannot be deported to Jordan under human rights law because witnesses in any future prosecution of him might themselves have been tortured by the Jordanians, the Sunday Times reported yesterday: The Royal Navy, once the scourge of brigands on the high seas, has been told by the Foreign Office not to detain pirates because doing so may breach their human rights. Warships patrolling pirate-infested waters, such as those off Somalia, have been warned that there is also a risk that captured pirates could claim asylum in Britain. The Foreign Office has advised that pirates sent back to Somalia could have their human rights breached because, under Islamic law, they face beheading for murder or having a hand chopped off for theft. Nice, eh? While the "cheese-eating surrender-monkeys" are pursuing and capturing pirates wherever they run, John Bull is winking at them as they pass! Last Edited By: bager1968 16-Apr-2008 04:52:55. Edited 1 time.
JBG.historypolitics...		#1	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 48 (16-Apr-2008 11:07:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There is an e-mail doing the rounds about Nelson wanting to initiate the battle of Trafalgar and the PC types shut off all his options. It was a parody but this latest article is bizarre in conforming with the stupid self defeating PC as in the joke post. So, if a pirate was captured, no matter how bang to rights, the PC crowd in Britain will allow same to suck off the teat of the British taxpayer with what justification??? Geeeze. Jonathan
seasick		#2	[-]
Posts: 4587 (16-Apr-2008 18:20:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Here in the USA we have solved the problem of people fleeing to Canada to avoid the death penalty. The USA just decided not to extradite. Canada lost its nerve and just sends them back now.
emc		#3	[-]
Posts: 3678 (16-Apr-2008 20:13:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	seasick wrote: Here in the USA we have solved the problem of people fleeing to Canada to avoid the death penalty. The USA just decided not to extradite. Canada lost its nerve and just sends them back now. Quite a few countries will not extradite people who may be subject to the death penalty to the US. Of course, the two solutions are a) lie (not an unknown activity for prosecutors) and b) agree to life in prison without parole. Surprisingly, many prosecutors in order to "appear tough on crime" chose option c), which is to whinge for political hay. Nothing like blaming a bunch of furriners for a prosecutor dropping a marginal case.
Zen9		#4	[-]
Posts: 3440 (17-Apr-2008 00:47:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Assuming they don't resist of course, and assuming the Captain infroms the FCO of their 'acquisitions'. Personnaly I'd hang 'em for piracy.
Scouse		#5	[-]
Posts: 255 (17-Apr-2008 19:08:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Was thinking the same thing Zen. An edict like 'do not detain pirates' could easily be nudge, nudge misinterpreted as 'take no prisoners'. Sinking the pirate vessel and leaving its former crew adrift in an open boat, or even taking them a nice distance offshore before cutting them loose, would be technically in keeping with the letter of the law here. As an institution the RN would never officially condone such an activity of course, but then, if the only real witnesses to the putting of pirates over the side in a small boat, several hundred miles offshore, with no provisions are the pirates themselves there will be CO's tempted to take just that option I'm sure of that.
PK	No "Over the Plank" Actions	#6	[-]
Posts: 693 (17-Apr-2008 21:38:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Are Gibraltar or the Isle of Man also subject to this legislation? The RN could put off pirates there for quick court trials and fair sentences - no Guantanamo, no Abu Ghraib.
CVA02		#7	[-]
Posts: 372 (17-Apr-2008 21:39:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Zen9 wrote: Assuming they don't resist of course, and assuming the Captain infroms the FCO of their 'acquisitions'. Personnaly I'd hang 'em for piracy. Oddly enough, pirates were given due process as far back as the 17th and 18th centuries. It is notable that Captain Kidd was sent back to London to be tried and executed. Of course, they did display his corpse in an iron cage for several years - a practice which was probably distasteful even by the standards of the time.
Alexius55		#8	[-]
Posts: 268 (17-Apr-2008 21:40:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hang on... (no pun intended) I have here (below) Article 1 Part F of the 1951 UN Refugee Convention: F. The provisions of this Convention shall not apply to any person with respect to whom there are serious reasons for considering that: ( a ) He has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes; ( b ) He has committed a serious non-political crime outside the country of refuge prior to his admission to that country as a refugee; ( c ) He has been guilty of acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations. Piracy is a crime against humanity, as pirates (along with war criminals and slave traders) are hostes humani generis. Even if they wriggle out of that one, it's definitely a serious non-political crime! So pirates are not allowed to claim asylum. The other way they might try to stay is that it is illegal, under the 1984 Convention against Torture, to remove somebody to a country where they may be tortured, even if they cannot claim refugee status. But wait a minute. From that convention's definition of torture: "It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions." i.e. having various body parts chopped off for murder/robbery! The Human Rights Act also has nothing to say here, as it only mentions that we're not allowed to execute people except in wartime or to torture people, not that we can't deport them to places where that might happen. IANAL, Alexius Last Edited By: Alexius55 17-Apr-2008 21:44:43. Edited 1 times.
Zen9		#9	[-]
Posts: 3442 (18-Apr-2008 00:32:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Curious thought what is the legal status of a warship and its 'legal enviroment'. A ship might logicaly be under the jurisdiction of the country its registered under. But does that mean the countrys laws are the ships laws? If a warship is operating outside territorial waters what law is operating on that ship? Indeed what law is operating on a civilian ship, we know of US cruise liners that leave US territorial waters to get out of US restrictions on Gambling and alcohol is that not so? Is it not possible that on a RN warship outside territorial waters RN law is THE LAW. Ergo execution is potentialy legal outside territorial waters?
taschoene		#10	[-]
Posts: 4196 (18-Apr-2008 02:35:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It's worth noting that since piracy is an international crime, any pirates captured by the RN could be tried in the UK courts and imprisoned in UK jails, deferring the issue of their potential human rights status for some time. For a parallel case, the USN has captured pirates off Somalia. They could have been tried under the Uniform Code of Military Justice or in U.S. Federal courts (both of which have laws governing piracy). However, instead the US took a simpler route, taking advantage fo the fact that international law gives any nation the right (and indeed the positive duty) to punish piracy. So the USN turned the pirates over to the Kenyan legal system. Because the Kenyan courts are reasonably fair and do not seem to engage in widespread torture* this avoided issues with the Convention on Torture** and probably make for a much faster trial than could have been arranged in the United States. * Based on Commonwealth practice, though probably not completely up to UK standards. ** Yes, I know the US hasn't exactly been a shining star on this issue of late. Let that pass for now, OK?

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Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

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