American production company producing a show for an American cable network and your complaining the content is too slanted towards something that American's would be most prone to watch?
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Mark F |
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Posts: 2381 (16-Apr-2008 02:15:04) |
Lessee...
American production company producing a show for an American cable network and your complaining the content is too slanted towards something that American's would be most prone to watch? |
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Admiral Beez |
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Posts: 4476 (16-Apr-2008 03:44:41) |
I already covered that in the premise of the opening post. I don't think Americans need to see only Americans in order to be interested. I'm a
Canuck-Brit and never see my side on Dogfights, but still enjoy the program.
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FreeloaderUK |
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Posts: 115 (16-Apr-2008 15:28:13) |
a P-40 kittyhawk managed to take out 3 109s in a dogfight despite being widely considered inferior to the 109- pilot skill, training & experience often
gets overlooked by the "this aircraft is better than that aircraft brigade"
a major reason why the IJN was so successful early in the war was the fact that they had a lot of really good pilots- when the IJN lost most of their best pilots after midway the tide turned- yes the Zero went quickly out of date but the fact that the IJN were turning out novice pilots really didnt help. |
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ickysdad |
and yet.... | ||
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Posts: 3110 (16-Apr-2008 16:35:08) |
FreeloaderUK wrote: the Zero was at best only equal to the Hurricane & inferior to the Spitfire V in performance but both RAF types came out on the negative side against the IJN fighter. The battles Against the Spitfire V were even after the IJN lost thier best pilots. As far as the P-40,or even the P-39 , goes they performed very well against '109's & 190's on the Eastern Front while the RAAF performed a test finding out that the P-40 was equal to the Spitfire V under 20K. When it came to actual combat results there were a few surprises. |
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JBren1 |
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Posts: 189 (16-Apr-2008 17:26:20) |
Admiral Beez wrote:I'm not sure that's actually true, as far as a military history TV 'documentary', or to put another way the *most* interest might reasonably be predicted from shows detailing the military successes of the country where it's mostly going to be viewed, or a few fairly specific and already notable 'heroic defeats', Pearl Harbor and The Chosin Reservior campaign are popular with Americans, Dunkirk with Brits (it parallels Chosin Reservoir, could have been worse but for heroism, but still part of a military disaster in big picture), and etc. But, why debate TV marketing? How about what I view as main point. You gave several examples of aerial combat success v the US, I detailed how at least several look pretty different from the US side, and noted that a lot of the US air combat successes detailed in "Dogfights" look pretty diferent from the non-US side, too. I still think that's the main point, and main flaw of such shows, not nationalistic bias per se but historical laziness. Joe |
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FreeloaderUK |
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Posts: 125 (19-Apr-2008 21:33:59) |
the Zero's great advantage was that it could out-turn pretty much anything- inexperienced pilots who tried to out-turn a zero flown by a skilled pilot
contributed to the myth of zero invincibility in the early months of the war.
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ickysdad |
Yes but... | ||
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Posts: 3112 (20-Apr-2008 06:50:12) |
FreeloaderUK wrote: even the Spitfire V's fared badly against them and they didn't tangle with Zero's till Feburary,1943 and that's after Japan lost alot of thier better pilots. Further even after the Spitfire changed thier tatics they came up 2nd. best. |
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Admiral Beez |
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Posts: 4486 (21-Apr-2008 19:46:40) |
ickysdad wrote: It still comes down to the pilot knowing and exploiting the weaknesses of the Zero. General Chennault trained his AVG pilots to take advantage of the P-40's good qualities versus the more nimble Zeros. On paper, a P-40 shouldn't stand a chance against a Zero, but in the right hands the Warhawk prevailed nicely. |
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seasick |
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Posts: 4598 (21-Apr-2008 22:49:16) |
I seem to remember an episode from the eastern front. Dog fights between Lufwaffe Fw-190 and Soviets flying P-40. I think part of the problem is that they want
to have well documented scenarios to present.
As for bias, it happens, I would say that the segments about Vietnam air combat show the Vietnamese as fairly skilled. There was another episode I saw about air combat in the 1960s in and around Israel. Specifically about Israeli Mirage III and Mirage V against other aircraft, such as MIG-19, MIG-21, and Hawker Hunters. |
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JBren1 |
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Posts: 190 (21-Apr-2008 23:47:37) |
Admiral Beez wrote: The AVG never encountered Zeroes, only Japanese Army fighters and mostly Type 97's ('Nates'). They did do better against that same opposition
than Brit/Dutch Buffalo and Hurricane units, or USAAC P-40's in the Philippines in their few encounters with JAAF fighters. The old 'Nate' held its
own against all of them but was bested 3:1 by the AVG (per all actual combats for which results on both sides are known, added up). Tactics may have been one
reason, but also the average military flying experience of AVG pilots was quite high compared to typical 'mass produced' wartime fighter units of most
air arms, though OTOH only one AVG pilot had any previous combat experience which some Brit pilots in SEA in 1942 did have from Europe/Med. Anyway it's not
directly relevant to the Zero.
Last Edited By: JBren1
22-Apr-2008 02:14:41.
Edited 3 times.
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