Where would Avro Arrow have taken Canada?

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bager1968		#21	[-]
Posts: 2871 (27-Mar-2008 06:48:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Admiral Beez wrote: Zen9 wrote: No don't scale it down. As it is its developeble into a high altitude recce bomber, a Canberra replacement. But that's a role for the SR-71 or U-2. By the late 1960s the SR-71 would be flying recon missions, and with a much longer range, higher altitude and speed than the Arrow. And how many SR-71s were in Canadian or UK service? Oh right, none. A SR version of the Arrow would give the Commonwealth its own long-range, high-speed recon aircraft... they would not have to ask the US to look at something for them.
Zen9		#22	[-]
Posts: 3398 (27-Mar-2008 15:05:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	PR in UK terminology, likely replacing the Canberras sometime in the 1960's or 70's. Of course if the Fairey Delta III had been produced I would'nt expect the Arrow to have much of a use for the RAF.
Admiral Beez		#23	[-]
Posts: 4445 (27-Mar-2008 15:40:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Wasn't Avro Canada, at the time of the Arrow, a fully-owned subsidiary of Britain's Hawker-Siddeley? Did the UK fund the Arrow at all? Was UK production of the Arrow considered?
CliffS		#24	[-]
Posts: 500 (27-Mar-2008 16:06:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Geographically, logistically and strategically, I think the Canadians have always realised that UK & European designs are unlikely to meet their requirements. As for the Arrow being of use to the Brits: The 1957 Defence White Paper axed at least a dozen comparable projects, so the chances of an overseas design making it were nil. The RAF had a perfectly acceptable Battle of Britain-style interceptor in the EE Lightning. And Britain's last attempt at an indigenous supersonic strike aircraft - the TSR-2 - was treated disgracefully by the government of the day. I think the Arrow (like the TSR-2) was a victim of politics, and the US arms salesmen came out on top. Cheers, Cliff
Admiral Beez		#25	[-]
Posts: 4446 (27-Mar-2008 18:46:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	CliffS wrote: Geographically, logistically and strategically, I think the Canadians have always realised that UK & European designs are unlikely to meet their requirements. While much of Canada's post-war fighter kit has definitely been of American origin, we've certainly had our share of UK and European designs in service. Our first jets in 1948 was the British de Havilland Vampire. Currently, Canada operates the BAe Hawk at the NATO Flight Training in Canada (NFTC) Centre at CFB Moose Jaw in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. The European AgustaWestland EH101 is now in Canadian service, as is the European Airbus A310 transport/tanker. As for non-aircraft requirements, every main battle tank that we've operated since the Sherman has been European (Centurion, Leopard I and now Leopard II). Our soldiers have been armed with the Belgium FN assault rifle since the 1960s.
drunknsubmrnr		#26	[-]
Posts: 1282 (28-Mar-2008 02:46:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Our soldiers have been armed with the Belgium FN assault rifle since the 1960s." And replaced it in the late 80's with American designs. Kevin Normal human beings don't get dolphins.
Duncan Albermarle		#27	[-]
Posts: 115 (28-Mar-2008 04:17:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	How about to the places that the engineers of the Avro Arrow ended up going? Europe and the US. Canada would end up with building parts for a high-speed transport system like the Concorde or would end up major parts in the US space shuttle program (more than the robot arms).
CliffS		#28	[-]
Posts: 501 (28-Mar-2008 21:41:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I should have been more specific in saying that Canadian fighter/attack aircraft requirements were unlikely to be met by UK or European designs. (Neither the Hawk, the EH-101 nor the A310 falls into those categories.) The Canadian aerospace industry has for years been a quiet achiever, with world leadership in short-haul STOL passenger aircraft (Dash-8 series), long-range bizjets (Bombardier), De Havilland Canada's incredibly durable and versatile Beaver and Otter - and of course that irreplaceable military tactical transport, the Caribou. I haven't the slightest doubt that, given the political will, Canada could design and build its own combat aircraft. How acceptable that would be to Big Brother down south, I leave to your imagination. As I said before, the Arrow (like its cousin the TSR-2) was a victim of politics. Cheers, Cliff
emc		#29	[-]
Posts: 3614 (28-Mar-2008 23:05:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Duncan Albermarle wrote: How about to the places that the engineers of the Avro Arrow ended up going? Europe and the US. Canada would end up with building parts for a high-speed transport system like the Concorde or would end up major parts in the US space shuttle program (more than the robot arms). I've actually worked with a couple of engineers who had been in the Canadian aerospace industry; none worked on the Avro-Canada Arrow. I've also worked with engineers who had worked in the UK aerospace industry, one of whom was involved in the tests which determined the cause of a number of early Comet crashes. Canada almost certainly could afford to maintain the capability to design and build front-line combat aircraft: Sweden manages to do so, with an economy about a quarter of the size of that of Canada's. (Canada's GNP, according to the CIA World FactBook is about 1.27trillion USD, vs Sweden's at about 333billion USD). I suspect, however, that were Canada's aerospace industry considered to be competitive (outside of its specialties in STOL aircraft), the US government would no more sub work to Canadian aerospace companies than to Sweden's.
Admiral Beez		#30	[-]
Posts: 4448 (29-Mar-2008 07:48:37) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	IIRC much of SAAB's fighter aircraft technology is American, including the engines. Isn't this a partial reason for why SAAB has had trouble exporting?

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Where would Avro Arrow have taken Canada?

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