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Norwegian subs during the Cold War

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becksh	Norwegian subs during the Cold War	Lead	[-]
Posts: 160 (16-Mar-2008 09:22:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hello all, I am wondering if any Western navy had ever contemplated an anti-nuclear submarine role for its conventional submarines. The navies of the UK, Netherlands and Norway had diesel/electric submarines and their main operational areas were the Norwegian Sea, North Sea and GIUK gap AFAIK (not sure about the Barents Sea). My speculation is that the Norwegian navy's diesel/electric boats could have had a fair chance of meeting Russian nuclear ones. So, did the Norwegian navy submarines practice operations against Russian nuclear submarines during the Cold War? Thanks in advance, Sunho
E2R		#1	[-]
Posts: 35 (16-Mar-2008 18:05:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am wondering if any Western navy had ever contemplated an anti-nuclear submarine role for its conventional submarines. According to the book "Klaar voor Onderwater" which conmemorates the 100yrs of Dutch Submarines, from 1954 on the Dutch submarines were part of the NATO Fishplay exercises executed by US and UK ASW-assets. These Fishplay exercises were meant to practise how to capture Soviet subs which tried to reach the SLOC (sea lines of communications) in the Atlantic between the US and Europe. The most important route for them was the route which led them through the waters between Greenland, Iceland and the UK (hence GIUK). Certainly the delivery of the two fleetboats of the Guppy-class and the building of the 4 triple-cilinder class meant that the Dutch submarines service was equipped to join the US and UK in defending the GIUK gap. The book mentioned that from 1968 on the Dutch subs were part of surveillance missions in the GIUK gap. The first mission was called Warm Water and was executed by HNLMS Dolfijn and HNLMS Potvis. In 1972 the Faslane-project was started, which meant that the Dutch were authorized to use Faslane as their operating base for patrols in GIUK, saving 300nm (about 1.5 day of transitting) towards the patrol areas. The book also states that the SSK's were also to be used to detect the noisy Soviet SSN's. That is way the Walrus-class was made of High Yield steel and equipped with a towed array: iot reach the depths where there were sound channels for better detection ranges and to reach the same operation depths of the deep diving Soviet SSN's. But these ASW-patrols were not the only task for the Dutch subs during the Cold War: Because of the capabilities, size and endurance of the Dutch boats combined with the experience and training level of the crew the Dutch were ideal subs to be used for Intel gathering missions in the vicinity of Soviet ports, frequently used operating areas and anchorages. One of the most important anchorages in the Med was in the Gulf of Sollum, close to Libya. The book tells the story of one particular patrol in that Gulf, by HNLMS Zwaardvis in 1983. During that patrol the Zwaardvis observed a Soviet task group with Kashins and the Minsk and was in the middle of a torpedo firing exercise. Source: "Klaar voor Onderwater" by Robin Snouck Hurgronje e.a. from 2006
becksh		#2	[-]
Posts: 161 (17-Mar-2008 09:25:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks a million for the reply. It really helps. Had the Dutch subs operated up north, say the Norwegian or Barents Sea, during the Cold War? Kind regards, Sunho
Kenneth Boe		#3	[-]
Posts: 503 (17-Mar-2008 19:38:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	So, did the Norwegian navy submarines practice operations against Russian nuclear submarines during the Cold War? Most of the Norwegian submarine operations from the cold war is still classified, probably because they are still doing some of the same operations today, but the answer is most likely yes. The Barents Sea was the Kobben class primary area of operation, beside costal operations. A typical Kobben mission during the cold war was transit from the main naval base in Bergen to northern Norway, 3 weeks in the Barents Sea and northern part of the Norwegian Sea, a weekend ashore, and 2 weeks on patrol again before return to Bergen.
becksh		#4	[-]
Posts: 162 (18-Mar-2008 02:18:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Many thanks for the reply. The Barents Sea must have been a 'target-rich' environment for the Kobben class submarines, although snorkeling there could have been dangerous I guess. BTW, where did the sub crew spend the weekend ashore during the 5-week patrol? Cheers, Sunho
Kenneth Boe		#5	[-]
Posts: 504 (18-Mar-2008 20:05:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	They used to spend the weekends in Tromsoe, Hammerfest, Kirkenes, Vardoe or Vadsoe.
E2R		#6	[-]
Posts: 36 (19-Mar-2008 01:01:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	" Had the Dutch subs operated up north, say the Norwegian or Barents Sea, during the Cold War?" I know for certain that the old boats were capable of operating more northernly than 70N. But keep in mind that the Dutch boats primairly would have used Faslane as home base in case of a Cold War, so for GIUK ASW-patrols a Dutch SSK would have been positioned in a favourable position for permanent layers (for example: look to the contours of the waters around the Faereor) within a few days of covert transitting of Faslane.

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