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hulahoop7	T23 SLEP	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1059 ( 4-Mar-2008 13:58:48) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It looks like the RN will soon be purchasing a new radar for the frigates - as per the articles on Artisan in the RN minor topics thread. The T23's are, by all accounts, still very good at what they do. Carrying a Merlin and with the new low frequency sonar I imagine they remain formidable ASW assets. The BAE blurb does mention that the radar does do target designation. It's an old question, but perhaps one to consider again in these financially strapped times. Does the T23 have the margins to carry Aster 15? Couple this with a 155mm retrofit, and Harpoon block 3 and they continue to look very relevant escorts. So are the T23s worth a major refit? I understand that Aster 15 has a limited area capability, whereas Seawolf is only ever point defence. With T45s looking like they'll be frozen at 6 the RN could do with an extra bit of capability in the anti air, and this type of refit would provide that.
BenRoethig		#1	[-]
Posts: 1725 ( 4-Mar-2008 16:15:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Replacing the Seawolf with 16-32 is theoretically possible depending on the size of the existing seawolf launcher. That being said, ASTER might not be in the cards. One of the major reasons Daring has been delayed is that getting PAAMS/SAAM to work with non-French Radars has been proven very problematic. So much so that it as been recommended that later Type45 destroyers be equipped with Mk41 instead.
Obi Wan Russell		#2	[-]
Posts: 131 ( 4-Mar-2008 16:26:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Whatever the final fit turns out to be, the fact remains that the replacement programme for the T23s is so far off that some kind of SLEP is an inevitability now, though for how many hulls is unclear. Ideally all of them, but I fear only 8 will be overhauled to keep them in service. They are still very capable and competetive escorts and a long way from obsolescence.
Ken the Coastie		#3	[-]
Posts: 40 ( 4-Mar-2008 16:31:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm sorry, but it appears that you have made a bit of sense in regards to matters pertaining to the defence of the UK. Your IP has been noted and MOD staffers are being dispatched as we speak to determine if this transgression was deliberate or due to ignorance. If it is deliberate then a lobotomy will be in order. The price is 500 pounds for a government lobotomy. ahem... Actually, I think ESSM would be a better fit than ASTER, it has a surface to surface capability and more might be carried. 32-64 ESSM would seem to be able to fit in the redbout the Seawolf uses though adding stuff that high up is more a weight issue than a volume one. Given the financial issues there would seem to be little hope of any gun upgrade unless the decision was made to switch t6o the 155 for all combatants for standardization purposes. It is my understanding that they are indeed fine ASW platforms almost without peer and given the proliferation of diesel boats they would be sensible...which I gather violates some MOD reg. Given the financial parsimony that looks likely to reduce the Royal Navy to 25 surface combatants in short order, the retention of these fine ASW assets seems highly unlikely. Rather than scrap them, perhaps you could spare a couple for the USCG.
hulahoop7		#4	[-]
Posts: 1060 ( 5-Mar-2008 14:01:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There is some chatter on line about the RN sleping the last 2 Type 42's to keep escort numbers up. Perhaps Des will call the the Argies for advice?
Obi Wan Russell		#5	[-]
Posts: 132 ( 5-Mar-2008 14:18:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The last four Type 42s were built to a stretched hull design so would be better suited to upgrades. It would make more sense to do four rather than just two for logistical reasons and extending them for another ten years would take some of the pressure off the fleet in general, though it's far from an ideal solution.
Graeme65		#6	[-]
Posts: 245 ( 5-Mar-2008 20:33:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Would Sea Dart be viable for a decade's further opperation beyond that currently planned or would the SLEP be a full scale remanufacturing with VLS and new missiles. There is also the Olympus and Tyne engines, these would be the only ones left in the fleet by then. Anything that keeps the number up would be better than the alternative though.
jock		#7	[-]
Posts: 932 ( 6-Mar-2008 01:29:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Interesting that SLEPing the T23's & 42's is mentioned, what about SLEPing the T22's? Surely better all rounders than the T42's
Moskit		#8	[-]
Posts: 971 ( 6-Mar-2008 07:06:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	So much so that it as been recommended that later Type45 destroyers be equipped with Mk41 instead. By whom?
Obi Wan Russell		#9	[-]
Posts: 137 ( 6-Mar-2008 11:50:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Right now I'd go for a Slep program that included the four T42B3s, four T22B3s and all thirteen T23s, because as I said earlier the replacement programme is so far behind even placing orders for new ships today wouldn't be soon enough. Numbers of escorts are vital to the fleet, despite what the politicians may think, so extending the useful lives of the existing ships is essential at this point. As for Sea Dart, the block 3 misiles in service are much more reliable and effective than those in service in the 80s, and are certainly adeqate for the next decade against most air threats likely to be encountered (most Russian aircraft still date from the cold war, indeed the long range bombers sent to 'sabre rattle' near UK airspace date from the 50s and 60s!). As long as the Sea Dart equipped ships are supplemented within a task group by T45s any gaps in capability will be covered. So all we need now are more T45s! I Still advocate building the full twelve originally projected, 7 & 8 are still on the cards according to the government (fingers crossed) and the final four can be justified as replacements for the T22B3s. Likely to happen though? Of course not!
pymes75		#10	[-]
Posts: 1075 ( 6-Mar-2008 11:53:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	So much so that it as been recommended that later Type45 destroyers be equipped with Mk41 instead. By whom? Lockheed Martin? :0)
Zen9		#11	[-]
Posts: 3377 ( 6-Mar-2008 13:14:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Major refit? Depends, to the Treasurey's warped mind its quite possible they think thats 'cheaper'. CAAM seems the longterm SeaWolf and Rapier replacement, which will do away with TIR, since it will use a datalink and strapdown INS until its in range of either the current IR sensor or a onboard (the missile) active radar instead. Considering that CAAM is being sourced form ASRAAM technology, it could be delivered in a reasonable timeframe, but a major change to SeaWolf seems off the cards. ASTER15 is the alternative, but its bulkier and would require a more substantial shipboard set of systems.

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