Warden wrote:
Keep in mind that the shell weight of the Bofors was over twice that of the 1.1".
If you had a 6" gun and a 8" gun and both were capable of 4 rpm wouldn't it be fair to say that the 6" gun has a low ROF?
No.
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jlyons97 |
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Posts: 1165 (30-Dec-2007 22:51:04) |
Warden wrote: No. |
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Ed |
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Posts: 2220 (31-Dec-2007 14:21:36) |
Warden wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keep in mind that the shell weight of the Bofors was over twice that of the 1.1". If you had a 6" gun and a 8" gun and both were capable of 4 rpm wouldn't it be fair to say that the 6" gun has a low ROF? jlyons97 answered: No. I agree, the 6" gun would not have a low ROF. But, the 8" gun could be considered to have a high ROF. If this example were true, why would you want, or need, a 6" gun? |
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jlyons97 |
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Posts: 1166 (31-Dec-2007 23:18:26) |
Ed wrote:
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Mike G |
USS Maryland & USS Helena 1.1" guns @ Pearl Harbor | ||
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Posts: 255 ( 2-Jan-2008 07:32:05) |
Both the Maryland and Helena were equipped with the weapon on December 7, 1941.
From Walter Lord's "Day of Infamy" on page #125: "The Maryland and Helena's newly installed 1.1 guns now swung into action and bagged three planes right away. On the Castor, Quartermaster William Miller listened with clinical interest to the new weapon. It wasn't a bark like the three-inch guns or an ear blasting crack like the five-inchers--just a muffled, persistant pom-pom that was somehow reassuring. On the West Virginia, Ensign Ed Jacoby was more surprised than reassured; these guns had been a constant headache in practice--they were always breaking down--but this morning they worked like a charm." |
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Throd |
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Posts: 474 ( 2-Jan-2008 18:27:20) |
According to the Naval weapons data on this site a 6" with only 4 rpm would have a low rof. All the WW2 guns except Italy are listed with higher rofs,
especially USA, UK and Germany.
If the rof were only 4 rpm for both 6" and 8" then the large USA CLs would never have been built since they could only deliver 2.8 or 3.5 tonnes/minute of ordanance whereas their US 8" equivilents could deliver up to 7.1 tonnes/minute, with longer range, more penetration and more explosive power. PS. I have been unable to post on this site for weeks - now on Mozilla with no problems, anyone no why? |
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jlyons97 |
Four barrel AA in the '30s | ||
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Posts: 1170 ( 4-Jan-2008 18:54:55) |
Two weapons fit the subject; a comparison may prove useful
Vickers Quadruple 2 Pdr Mk VIII (series) Recoil operated, water cooled, belt fed 1. Weight of mounting: 8.5 - 11 tons 2. ROF 100 rpm 3. MV 2400 f/s 4. ammo supply: on-mount belt fed from tray; up to 112 rds available/gun 5. range: 6800 yds 6. ceiling: 13000' 7. weight of projectile: 1.6 lbs Comments: Not director-controlled DD and smaller [the director was large and heavy]. "The internal gun arrangement was complex in the extreme and 'pompoms' needed considerable skilled maintenance. ...despite some improvements over the older ammunition-belt system, jams were still frequent." [Destroyer Weapons of WW II] Good/bad feature: The tray ammo supply provided a lot of ready use ammo which mean the mount could be fired by one person (Captain of the Mount) in an emergency once the mounting was powered. However, the presence of 400+ rounds on the moving structure would have made manual operation harder and demanded larger training/elevation motors once this feature was incorporated. The cordite propellant was the reason this weapon was not adopted by the USN despite RN encouragement to do so, the propellant dictating a non-curable low m/v issue. Naval Gun Factory 1.1in Mark 1/1 Recoil operated, water cooled, clip fed 1. Weight of mounting: 4.7-6.5 tons 2. ROF 150 rpm [sources differ on this figure] 3. MV 2700 f/s 4. Range: 7400 yds 5. Ceiling: 19000' 6. weight of projectile: 1 lb 4. ammo supply: eight round clips, two clip feeders/gun Comments: " it was extremely complex. ....Many defects soon appeared; for example, in view of excessive vibration, broad steel stiffening plates were added to the mount between the carriage and the base, and a new mount was designed....the gun also earned a reputation for jamming, realizing earlier fears." ....In 1945 the captain of a destroyer escort armed with the 1.1in wrote that it worked well enough as a gun, but that despite its high rate of fire it lacked the range of the stopping power of the Bofors gun. .... power drives required an .inordinate amount of overhaul by ship's force to be kept in even fair operating condition." [Friedman, US Naval Weapons} Good features: Adaptable to a lightweight off-mount director. Lighter weight, higher rate of fire, longer range and ceiling Bad features besides mechanical issues: Like most 'heavy machine guns' it took a lot of manpower to keep it going. Pointer, trainer, mount captain, and at least four loaders. Plus more ammo passers to feed the loaders. One picture in Campbell shows nine men on the moving structure. In a kamikaze world, the Vickers, worts and all, would be the better weapon if only because of its projectile weight. In earlier worlds? If this comparison shows anything, it shows the difficulty in getting complex weapons to work in a salt-water environment, when you want them to. |
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Glenn239 |
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Posts: 1027 ( 4-Jan-2008 19:21:55) |
At PH on 7 Dec. 1941, only a few warships used their 1.1" guns effectively
Only 64 x 1.1" A.A. guns were aboard 2 heavy and 4 light cruisers at Pearl Harbor. Pennsylvania was fitting out with 1.1's at the time, but her log does not indicate any of this type of ammo expended. In comparison, the USN alone had 397 x 50-cal. |
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