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Mar 20 17 8:15 PM
Apr 1 17 9:34 PM
Apr 2 17 4:46 AM
emc wrote:... but accepting employee deaths for productivity gains is not unheard of in the business world.
Apr 2 17 7:32 PM
emc wrote:All the points being raised against convoying were raised by the British Admiralty against convoying somewhat earlier.
Apr 2 17 11:54 PM
Apr 3 17 12:52 PM
Apr 3 17 1:19 PM
Apr 3 17 1:32 PM
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Apr 3 17 2:05 PM
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Apr 3 17 2:27 PM
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Apr 3 17 2:46 PM
ADP wrote:1. The information will never be "perfect". At the very least there will be a time lag between the Allied messages being intercepted and decrypted, a message to the U-boats being drafted, approved, encrypted and transmitted, and that message being received, decrypted, studied, and a decision being made as to how each U-boat will proceed. Other reasons the information will not be "perfect" include navigation errors on the part of the convoy and/or U-boat, unanticipated course changes, machinery breakdowns, heavy weather etc. Things like this happen every day at sea.
2. U-boats will NOT be roaming the ocean on the surface at 18 knots, going hither and thither as if out for a Sunday afternoon cruise! A U-boat on the surface is exposed and vulnerable. One travelling at 18 knots is far more visible than one that is stationary due to the wake. A U-boat CO is not going to travel at speed in daylight on the surface unless it is absolutely necessary. Even if a convoy were not escorted, there were patrols by surface and airborne assets that the U-Boat had to worry about. Fuel consumption was also a concern - moving at speed increases fuel consumption dramatically.
3. A U-boat only has to be kept down by escorts for a few hours to lose contact with a convoy. Even if it receives "perfect information" once the escorts are gone, it may simply take too long to intercept the convoy before it arrives at its destination.
4. I can't believe I've been sucked into this thread again.....
Apr 3 17 3:04 PM
Apr 3 17 3:58 PM
alecsandros wrote:With perfect info, the entire convoy of 50 ships can be sunk (remember the Uboats can and will surface after the first attack, and overtake the 9kts convoy during the following day, to engage it once more the followign night); with idv shipping, tipically the fast ships (15kts and more) escape.
Apr 3 17 4:01 PM
alecsandros wrote:You obviously didn't read the part where it says 'both sides have perfect information'
Apr 3 17 4:04 PM
Apr 3 17 4:16 PM
alecsandros wrote:Uboats tipically moved on the surface.
Not if there were ships or ac about that might - just might - report their position.
Idv ships need to be tracked, the uboat needs to arive in correct attack position, the attack, etc. That takes time,
Easier when the targets are constrained to move through a narrow corridor. Easier yet if the U boat can reject some sightings as too hard, knowing that easier ones will appear shortly - fifty times more shortly for your example.
and in that time the uboat will be overtaken by other ships.
Only if those other ships are close enough. The optimum is a many ships as possible go by while the U boat is attacking one. To get that you put as many ships as possible as close as possible to each other. That's called a convoy and you are now making exactly the argument you rejected so long ago.
Later the uboat will surface and track the ships , again intercept and sink another, but in that time the other ships get away more.
Same detail, you get more of that effect the closer you group the ships. With the bonus that after one attack all the possible targets are ahead of the U boat meaning it can't just wait for the next one, it has to use fuel to chase it and in daylight is limited to 7.6kts for a limited period.
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