Article about Brazil moving rapidly forward with plans to build a nuclear power attack sub! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071116/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_nuclear_sub_1
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rcrum |
Brazil's Future Nuclear Sub |
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Registered Member
Posts: 1 (20-Nov-2007 01:36:26) |
Article about Brazil moving rapidly forward with plans to build a nuclear power attack sub! http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071116/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_nuclear_sub_1 |
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Dave Bender |
Brazil has no South American enemies | ||
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Posts: 5523 (21-Nov-2007 00:21:31) |
Why spend billions of dollars to fight an enemy that does not exist?
If the Government of Brazil has money to burn then at least build something useful. Perhaps a high speed rail system or improve the national highway system. |
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tassilo27 |
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Posts: 49 (21-Nov-2007 00:34:32) |
I'm not sure why you would want a nuclear submarine to defend an oilfield that's not even 200 miles off the shore. Nuclear submarines are best at
long-range interdiction missions over a long period of time, not short-range defense missions. Especially with an indigenous technology that is likely to be
not as good as contemporary AIP designs (not through the fault of the Brazilian defense industry), why would you want to spend that money for an inferior
product?
Also, at that distance you could buy a bunch of fourth-generation or generation 4.5 tactical aircraft carrying ASMs and get every non-American force attacking the oilfields. Brazil's looking to this as a Hero Project, to steal an old Soviet phrase. |
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bager1968 |
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Posts: 2643 (21-Nov-2007 03:51:55) |
Lets see... full APG-66 upgrades for the AF-1s (plus a few more from AMARC fully refurbished)... newly-modernized S-2T turbo-trackers (or S-3Bs)... more
flexible and effective than a couple SSNs for defendint that continental shelf oil-field... especially since they can deploy to any airfield near the coast and
thus cover most or all of the oil-field at the same time.
Actually, the cost of the SSN program (for two subs) would buy at least 20 RafaleMs as well as 20 S-3Bs... that would do really well, now wouldn't it? |
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NewGolconda |
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Posts: 2881 (21-Nov-2007 04:28:31) Commonwealth Moderator |
Every man is the hero of his own play, even if to someone else he is the sidekick, human interest story or the bartender.
It is quite clear that Brazil has had the ambition to be the dominant naval power in its region, or even further afield for more than a century. Its quite possible that in 100 years the worlds largest economies would go something like this, China, Brazil, India, Europe, North America. Even now, Brazil is a significant global trader. They certainly have as much right to power projection as any European power. Its quite possible that in the course of the next 50 years they will disagree with another power over an important question in South America, or Even Africa. Its also quite possible that they will go about the business of strengthening their arm inefficiently, or in a different manner to what another power may do. |
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Dave Bender |
Have as much right to power projection as any European power | ||
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Posts: 5526 (21-Nov-2007 15:17:53) |
Yup. And they will pay the economic cost for such power projection capability. Every Brazillian real spent on nuclear submarines is a real not available for
economic development. Brazil will be making the same basic economic mistake as the fool currently running Venezuela.
Military forces are for legitimate defense needs, not prestige items. |
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NewGolconda |
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Posts: 2885 (22-Nov-2007 00:39:15) Commonwealth Moderator |
I know there is a strong school of thought that sees all military spending as economically delitarious. Personally, I think modest military spending as a
fraction of gdp will have little or no negative impact on long term growth.
Its worth remembering the Brazil sits about 8th in Rank in GDP, just behind the UK and France and just ahead of Italy and Russia (with the places swapping around 1-2 depending on when and by whom). A very different kettle of fish to Aregentina (19) or Chile (31). |
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bager1968 |
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Posts: 2644 (22-Nov-2007 08:51:59) |
NewGolconda wrote:And just how much is Russia spending on its military compared to Brazil? It looks to me that even if Brazil does build those SSNs, and upgrade its air force, and even has Italy/Spain/France build them a companion CV for Sao Paulo, they will still be spending far more of their GDP on domestic matters (and less on their military) than Russia. |
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ststn.thefreeforall |
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Registered Member
Posts: 1 (10-Mar-2008 15:03:54) |
test
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FreeloaderUK |
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Posts: 91 ( 6-Jul-1994 21:08:00) |
Brazil is trying to modernise itself- with over 180million people its bigger than Russia but far smaller than the USA. Brazil obviously wants to become THE
dominant power in South America & to be treated seriously around the world.
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emc |
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Posts: 3642 ( 8-Apr-2008 00:25:25) |
In absolute terms, Brazil could probably afford to spend more on defense, but it really, really needs to sensibly evaluate its likely threats. Of course, in
absolute terms, necessity is not the sole (or even dominant) driver of many defense procurement decisions.
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