I thought it would be interesting.
I like Kittens, and so does my Snake.
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seasick |
Spruance class DD with a Mk71 gun: |
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Posts: 4977 ( 1-Apr-2007 07:07:24) |
I built a model of a Spruance class DD with a 203mm/55
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I thought it would be interesting.
--- Mark V.
I like Kittens, and so does my Snake.
Last Edited By: seasick 11-Sep-2007 20:23:21.
Edited 1 time.
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Crusty |
Re: Spruance class DD with a Mk71 gun: | ||
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Posts: 73 ( 1-Apr-2007 18:25:06) |
Cool! Thats how the real ones should have looked.
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Fermi2 |
Why? | ||
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Posts: 3305 ( 1-Apr-2007 18:38:17) |
The Guns they had were more than adequate.
Mike |
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MSR |
Re: Spruance class DD with a Mk71 gun | ||
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Posts: 2715 ( 1-Apr-2007 19:53:28) |
What are the two rectangular boxes in front of the bridge?
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MConrads |
Re: Spruance class DD with a Mk71 gun | ||
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Posts: 471 ( 1-Apr-2007 20:03:26) |
Box launched Tomahawk.
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seasick |
Boxes | ||
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Posts: 4977 ( 1-Apr-2007 20:44:32) |
The Boxes are the Mk143 GMLS (aka Armored Box Launchers: or
ABL). They were fitted to 7 Spruance DD in real life and so I put them on the model. I haven't quite decided which ship this one
should be yet, but I'll probably date the kit to @1985 or 1986.
Note: DD-986 USS Hill was never fitted with VLS or ABL. One Ship with ABL had them landed for a VLS.
--- Mark V.
I like Kittens, and so does my Snake.
Last Edited By: seasick
7-Nov-2007 07:13:17.
Edited 1 times.
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meyer |
Re: Spruance class DD with a Mk71 gun: | ||
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Posts: 2 ( 1-Apr-2007 21:10:46) |
Dear seasick,
I don“t think that you put the ABLs on the model as this is a miniature made by the the german firm ARGOS representing the USS Ingersoll in the early 1990s. The only thing that is different on your model is the missing pennant number and the replacement of the forward gun ;-) |
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meyer |
Re: Spruance class DD with a Mk71 gun: | ||
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Posts: 2 ( 1-Apr-2007 22:14:24) |
Sorry seasick, after having a real close look at your pic and the ARGOS model I can only apologise as they are not identical. The last one shows the USS Ingersoll with the hangar modification for two Seahawks and your model shows the unmodified hangar.
Excuse my hipshot but I think you would also like the ARGOS models of the Sprucans in 1/1250 scale. |
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seasick |
Hi | ||
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Posts: 4977 ( 2-Apr-2007 00:28:27) |
I'm a fraud?
The model you are looking at is a 1/700 scale Dragon Spruance kit. (Notice the new US dollar coin in the picture.) I spent 30 hours on the model. I worked rather hard to remove any sign of seams. Lots of putty and sanding sticks. I custom mixed the paint out of Gunze-Sanyo FS36260 and FS36375 (Neutral Gray and Light Ghost Gray) for the vertical surfaces, and dark gray FS36118 to simulate non-skid surfaces. The flight deck has 2 parts fs36081 and 7 parts fs36118 to make it slightly darker. I am happy that my model was mistaken for a professionally manufactured metal model. I caught your string below, no foul. --- Mark V. I like Kittens, and so does my Snake. |
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taschoene |
Re: Why? | ||
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Posts: 4304 ( 2-Apr-2007 05:40:39) |
The 8-inch gun would certainly have been a superior NGFS weapon compared to the original 5-inch mounts, if only because it had somewhat more range.
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SOLDIER officer 81 |
Re: Spruance class DD with a Mk71 gun: | ||
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Posts: 153 (12-Apr-2007 15:16:24) |
Thats a great model Seasick. I wish I could find that old discussion about the Mk 71.
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jemb |
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Posts: 660 (22-Sep-2007 13:46:35) |
Was consideration given to the Mk71 in the 1980s? When this class was built, maybe NGFS was out of favor politically (post-Vietnam), so the 5" was kept.
Were Iowas and Tomahawks considered NGS enough?
And could they have functioned with a mixture - 1 5" and 1 8"? ( + cruise?) |
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seasick |
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Posts: 4024 (22-Sep-2007 18:07:04) |
In 1981 there was a small effort to revive the gun, it was quashed by the Battleship mafia.
It would have been a good suplement to the Iowas, and probably would have worked better. |
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AegisFC |
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Posts: 171 (22-Sep-2007 18:49:04) |
Except with the Mk-71 in place their would not of been enough room for the Mk-41 VLS, which suited the Spru-cans better than a larger gun.
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seasick |
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Posts: 4025 (22-Sep-2007 20:09:43) |
Not every Spruance was fitted with VLS. Six Spruances fitted with the 203mm gun would have been very useful. A smaller 16 cell strike length VLS still could
have been fitted. Ship self defense sized Mk41 VLS could be fitted in place of the Mk29 launcher.
The rest of the class would have paid off by now but, the six would have probably have been SLEPed to maintain a fire support capability or be in Catagory A reserve (NRF). |
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Ken the Coastie |
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Posts: 26 (30-Sep-2007 03:40:49) |
There was enough room for a 32 cell launcher IIRC.
I often wondered why the aft cells were not fitted in the Spruances. There was a problem with hull depth and possibly shaft lines aft but this only applied to tomahawk which was rather belatedly added to the VLS repertoire. The hull had depth for a MK26 launcher, which indicates that Standard and possibly ASROC missiles could be accommodated. With 20x20 hindsight 8" gun a 5" gun 32 tomahawks and ~256 ESSM quadpacked would be a neat asset to have. |
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seasick |
A squeeze | ||
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Posts: 4147 ( 7-Nov-2007 21:01:26) |
There was enough room for a 32 cell launcher IIRC.
I often wondered why the aft cells were not fitted in the Spruances. There was a problem with hull depth and possibly shaft lines aft but this only applied to tomahawk which was rather belatedly added to the VLS repertoire. The hull had depth for a MK26 launcher, which indicates that Standard and possibly ASROC missiles could be accommodated. With 20x20 hindsight 8" gun a 5" gun 32 tomahawks and ~256 ESSM quadpacked would be a neat asset to have. The Spruance class had many upgrades while in service, equipment added encroached into the space reserved for the Mk26 launcher, and the VLS was extended in depth to accommodate the Tomahawk and its booster. The result is that the Spruances could not accommodate the strike length VLS in the stern location. Only the "ship self defense" version could be fit aft. The most practical refit would be 16 strike length VLS cells forward and 16 ship self-defense aft. The aft cells would be fitted for VL NATO Sea Sparrow while the fore cells would hold a mix of Tomahawk and VL ASROC. It will be a long time until the USN has enough quad packs of ESSM to meet its requirements for current Aegis ships. I do not believe a Spruance would need more than 16 ESSM for a deployment. |
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g lof2 |
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Posts: 201 ( 8-Nov-2007 09:03:47) |
Have you ever considered the alternate mounting position of the Mk71. I believe it was in X possition replacing the Mk29 with the magazine in the space
reserved for the Mk26 magazine. I only remember this from an old SNAME journal in the 70's, and was for a built for purpose fire support ship version of
the Spruances, but such a location would allow you to keep a full 64 Mk41 launcher forward instead of craming missile in every nook and craney.
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skipper101 |
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Posts: 1469 (18-Dec-2007 14:20:33) |
Was it physically possible to fit the Mk 71 gun to the Spruance Class DD if so could it have been done in both fwd and aft possitions.
If so then this could have been an ultimatly better choice than DDX. it would have filled the whole DDX requirement 2 8 in guns 61 cell VLS for TLAM and had asw capability to perhaps even installing a small VLS for ESSM aft and updating radar and firecontrol to suite a more capable ESSM AAW Capability. and Saved Billions of Dollar on a new super ship to fill a role already well catered for. |
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Dave Bender |
Fit the Mk 71 gun to the Spruance Class DD | ||
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Posts: 5726 (18-Dec-2007 16:22:55) |
If someone decides that 8" is the perfect shore bombardment round then there is a cheaper and easier solution.
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bager1968 |
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Posts: 2692 (19-Dec-2007 09:21:39) |
skipper101 wrote:The Spruance class DDs were designed to have their forward 5" mk.45 replaced with the MK 71. Weight and space were reserved, and this was not really used for anything until the VLS conversion of some units. The aft mount is a different story... they were to retain the 5" mk.45, and it would have been really difficult (and expensive) to move things to allow a MK 71 to be fitted in its place. |
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