Hi all need some advice please why do the US have 2 classes of assault landing ships, both have flat tops and both have rear exits for lcac, or am i been
really thick.Thanks for any advice you might give
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 windsordaw |
The difference between a LHA and LDH |
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Posts: 57 ( 6-Jun-2008 15:08:35) |
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BenRoethig |
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Posts: 1792 ( 6-Jun-2008 15:23:14) |
Size of the well deck. LHAs can carry one LCAC. LHDs carry three.
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windsordaw |
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Posts: 58 ( 6-Jun-2008 15:37:13) |
Is that all it is, thanks for that
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MSR |
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Posts: 2684 ( 6-Jun-2008 15:41:09) |
I thought the original reason was political acronym fudging.
The aim of diplomacy is to achieve results, not win arguments
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jemb |
types and classes | ||
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Posts: 711 ( 7-Jun-2008 12:52:16) |
In the early '70s, the USN was gunning to get 9 Tarawa class LHAs, but in the era of post-Vietnam retrenchment (and teh '73 oil price hike) Congress
only allowed them 5.
When teh Reagan administration came in, they made another bid, but rather than saying 'can you give us a few $bn for those ships you nixed a few years ago?', they marketed an LHA-development as LHDs - indicating they were a new type, tho I think most people would recognise them as another LHA class. The enhanced well-deck makes the 'D' relevant,and I think they also have enhanced aviation fuel storage facilitating Harrier ops - they were planned with a secondary 'Harrier carrier' mission, which made them appear more flexible but which the USN would probly hardly have used even had teh Cold War continued. However, as MSR indicates, it was political. (Similarly, the RN's cruiser-sized County class missile destroyers and Invincible class 'through-deck cruisers' were sold to politicians as more affordable than cruiesrs and carriers respectively!) I'd prefer the neater solution of continuing the series as e.g. Wasp = LHA6, so LHAs and LHDs are less confusable visually, but they might not have got them that way! |
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perfectgeneral |
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Posts: 395 ( 7-Jun-2008 13:40:54) |
Does the building of Albion and Bulwark over a second of the Ocean class indicate that the RN favours LHD over LHA?
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Want10Destroyers/
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/4Subs88Months/
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Obi Wan Russell |
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Posts: 257 ( 7-Jun-2008 14:03:02) |
perfectgeneral wrote: It's not an either/or siruation. Both ship types have their part to play. Albion and Bulwark were built as direct replacements for Fearless and Intrepid, which were both long overdue for replacement. The 'second LPH' role has been taken by the remaining Invincibles for the time being, as a way to stave off any moves to withdraw them early. LHD and LHA are as explained earlier basically variations on the same theme, I think you mean LHD over LPH (Landing Platform, Helicopter). The problem with changing a design like Oceans to LHD form is you either make it bigger to accomodate the dock (at least another 5,000 tonnes displacement) or you lose the equivalent internal volume of stores/ vehicles/ troops that the ship can carry. The RN's amphibious forces currently have 6 ships with floodable docks so there is no great need for the LPH to be an LHD too. It is more useful to fill her up with more troops and helicopters which contributes more to the overall force than a few more large landing craft an a few hundred less troops. Smaller Navies with less ships tend to go for less specialised vessels hence the popularity of LHD type ships, which is a more multi purpose vessel. |
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StevoJH |
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Registered Member
Posts: 7 ( 7-Jun-2008 14:09:00) |
Obi Wan Russell wrote: Could Ocean/LPH be seen more as a replacement of say HMS Bulkwark and Hermes from when they were operating as commando carriers more then anything else then? But yes, as you said, Albion and Bulkwark are replacements for Fearless and Intrepid. For a bit of Trivia though, the names Bulkwark and Albion were both last used as the names of Centaur class Aircraft carriers that were modified into commando carriers. Also for trivia, if the pricing on the Navy Matters site is correct, the navy could have gotten four Ocean Class LPH's for the price of the two LPD's.
Last Edited By: StevoJH
7-Jun-2008 14:20:17.
Edited 1 times.
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Obi Wan Russell |
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Posts: 260 ( 7-Jun-2008 14:56:11) |
Ocean was indeed a belated replacement for Bulwark and Hermes, so the concept of operating seperate LPHs and LPDs was long established in the RN. LPHs are
needed to land large numbers of troops and light vehicles by helicopter, ie the initial assault whereas LPDs are seen as carrying the heavy equipment (MBTs for
example) as well as smaller numbers of troops. LPDs with large superstructures can accomodate commnad and control facilities for amphibious assaults which
would be harder to squeeze into a more carrier shaped ship. The American LHA/LHDs do this but at the expense of flight deck space (landing alongside the island
is a bit of a squeeze apparently) so there is a trade off to be considered. Ocean was very inexpensive because steel is cheap and air is free as the saying
goes, and she was delivered for about the same cost as a frigate. Ocean does not have and expensive radar suite, SAM system or much else that makes up the cost
of a modern warship, just the basics to enable her to do her job. Albion and Bulwark were more expensive because they have very extensive command and control
suites compared to Ocean amongst other things. Ocean's design included a lot of commercial rather than military standard equipment to keep costs down, but
this was realised to have gone a little too far and logistic support for some items has proved troublesome. This has been rectified at later refits but the
concept of a large carrier sized warship being delivered for the cost of an escort is still valid. Lessons learned have been incorporated into the CVF building
plan.
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Bledlow |
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Posts: 94 ( 7-Jun-2008 15:25:53) |
perfectgeneral wrote: Albion and Bulwark are better described as LPDs, not LHDs, & Ocean as an LPH, though AFAIK the RN has never having formally adopted US ship class designations. On the RN website Ocean is called an Amphibious Helicopter Carrier, & the others LPDs. The Bay class are called LSDs - and as they're RFA, LSD(A) - for Auxiliary. Apart from that, I think Obi Wan Russell has said it all. |
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pymes75 |
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Posts: 1102 ( 8-Jun-2008 15:48:07) |
It should be noted that the USN's current design for it's next generation LHX is, in fact, an LPH (or a true LHA to be precise).
IMHO, they are wisely concentrating on providing enhanced air assault capabilities (V-22s, F-35Bs, AH-1Zs and MH-53Ks) without the inevitable compromise created by the inclusion of a well dock. 
Last Edited By: pymes75
8-Jun-2008 15:51:23.
Edited 1 times.
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