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Admiral Beez |
British Fighters, why American for FAA, European for RAF? |
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Posts: 4524 ( 7-May-2008 04:33:39) |
With tight budgets, why has Britain decided to use American JSF fighters for the FAA, while using Eurofighter Typhoons for the RAF? Wouldn't have been more
prudent to simply join the JSF program for both FAA and RAF, and skip the Eurofighter group?
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taschoene |
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Posts: 4216 ( 7-May-2008 05:21:48) |
First of all, the British signed up to Eurofighter a decade or so before the Joint Strike Fighter Program even existed. And of course Eurofighter is delivering
operational aircraft now, not a decade from now.
Second, the RAF is also getting JSF, as a successor to Harrier, so the notion that JSF is strictly for the Royal Navy is simply wrong -- both services will provide crews (and airframes, I think) for Joint Force Harrier. Thirdly, JSF and Typhoon are clearly optimized for different roles -- Typohoon is an air-superiority fighter first and a striker second, while JSF is a striker first and a fighter second (as the name might suggest). Fourth, Eurofighter preserves a lot more combat aircraft design capability in the UK than JSF, which will have UK content but nothing near the same level of design participation. |
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Red Admiral |
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Posts: 1863 ( 7-May-2008 09:53:06) |
The F-35s for the FAA will be augmented by F-35s from the RAF in service as well when CVF is carrying it's full aircraft complement.
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bager1968 |
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Posts: 2925 ( 7-May-2008 20:21:59) |
Joint Force Lightning.
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taschoene |
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Posts: 4217 ( 7-May-2008 23:34:43) |
bager1968 wrote: Yeah, I realized that after I posted.
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JBren1 |
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Posts: 197 ( 8-May-2008 17:37:04) |
As mentioned there was a huge gap in time between the intial decision made to buy the Eurofighter and the one to buy the JSF (though if, big if, the JSF
doesn't slip in schedule much more the 'initial operational capability' dates will be less than 10 years apart, not all that much by today's
slow moving a/c procurement standards). Anyway weapons programs are 'jobs' and defense infrastructure projects foremost in many or most cases, and at
least as of the time of Eurofighter, a US-centered shared project like JSF was a non-starter, the whole idea was not to do it that way.
But, if the decision was purely military and there weren't contractual obligations to buy all planned Eurofighters or else pay the other consortium members penalties, it would surely make sense to discontiune additional Eurofighter procurement now. That wouldn't be solely in favor of JSF but in view of a tight money situation where more Eurofighters don't meet any really urgent UK requirement head on. In almost any realistic scenario requiring really top end air-air capability the UK is going to be allied with a country that has a far superior plane for that role. And such scenario's themselves aren't all that likely. Against more moderate and realistic air opposition there are already some Eurofighters, and there isn't a big difference anyway between Eurofighters and other potential allies' F-16's, 18's etc. if all have the same AWACS/EW/network etc. support. Whereas in lots of highly realistic scenario's the UK is going want to contribute strike a/c to coalition warfare, and the Eurofighter right now has quite limied capabilies in that area. More money is to be spent improving that as time goes on but it can't match the JSF's potential, and the timeframe of those two things, 'fully multirole' Eurofighters and JSF's, is less far apart. AFAIK it's still not certain that some penalties won't be paid to cut off some procurement of this low priority asset, the Eurofighter. Joe |
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Alexius55 |
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Posts: 286 ( 8-May-2008 20:30:24) |
The other thing is why they didn't go the other way round, and have a Sea Typhoon instead of JSF. Obviously, all the Eurofighters would look very different
in that case.
Presumably, it's because when the EAP was designed in 1985, CVF was not thought of, and if you had asked anyone what the Invincible replacement would be the answer would probably be a 25-30,000 tonne CVS, which would require STOVL aircraft- i.e. not Typhoons. However, had there been a move to make the Typhoon navalisable- perhaps Ark was kept and a Phantom replacement needed- then things would have been different. For starters, the French would have stayed in the project, and what we now call the Typhoon would look more like a Rafale. If this had happened (say Ark is gone, but for some reason there is a carrier-capable Eurofighter) would there be something else to replace Harriers, Jaguars and Buccaneers in the attack role? I assume that the Eurofighter would replace the Phantoms, Tornado F.3s and Lightnings and (eventually) the SHARs, with the GR.4 either also being replaced by the Eurofighter or hanging on until the 2020s. |
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