Alternative Dreadnought

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P3D	Alternative Dreadnought	Lead	[-]
Posts: 810 (26-Apr-2008 02:23:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	After battles in the Admiralty, Sir John Fisher reluctantly agrees to postpone the construction of the all-big-gun armored cruisers that would have become the Invincible class. The Lorn Nelson class won't be build. Instead, a class of four turbine-powered all-big-gun battleships is to be laid down in 1905. As the availability of docks is a concern, these ships should be only slightly larger than the previus KE-VII class - 453'8" x 79'6" x 26'. Squeezing the ship into the dimensions of the Duncan class (432' x 75' 6" x 25.6") would be a plus. Range should be 6000nm@10kts. The ship is to use the new 12"/45 guns, but any other details (armament, protection, speed) is up to the designers.
NewGolconda		#1	[-]
Posts: 3302 (26-Apr-2008 04:06:14) Commonwealth Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Quick comments.. Your battlefleet is already dominant or dominant to the power of two. You have a massive armoured cruiser problem, as the US, France, Japan, Russia etc are building huge numbers of first class cruisers with 10 and even 12in guns. Meeting these ships on a numbers basis under a two power standard is problematic. Under the Imperial Defence act of 1889 and later you have huge numbers of second and third class cruisers completed in the 1890's. These are now all less than 20kt and have at best a broadside of 5 6in guns of obsolete type. Dispersed bases in Canada, the Bahamas the cape, China etc are expensive to maintain. The Lord Nelson class have already recieved parliamentary aproval in 1904, and long lead time items are ordered. Some can be diverted to new ships, but others will be wasted. I dont believe the monies are trasnferable without a new act. The liberals are coming, and looking for savings. They feel the battlefleet is needlessly bloated, and they want to cut back on new construction for several years to pa for social programmes.
delcyros		#2	[-]
Posts: 1731 (26-Apr-2008 09:10:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am not really sure what exactly is required here. In accordance with the suggestions of Archer Jones and Keogh (The Dreadnought - Revolution: Another Perspective) I bring up two main proposals. The "slow" Dreadnought, which is slow enough to allow the later Pre-Dreads to remain in the battleline and the all big gun armoured cruiser to remain in their scouting task. The designs may not look that impressive technically but strategically, politically and financially, they do make sense. HMS Dominator, UK all big gun battleship laid down 1904 Displacement: 12.274 t light; 13.082 t standard; 14.333 t normal; 15.333 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (435,00 ft / 432,00 ft) x 75,60 ft x (25,60 / 27,07 ft) (132,59 m / 131,67 m) x 23,04 m x (7,80 / 8,25 m) Armament: 10 - 12,00" / 305 mm 45,0 cal guns - 871,37lbs / 395,24kg shells, 100 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model 5 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread 12 - 4,00" / 102 mm 40,0 cal guns - 30,67lbs / 13,91kg shells, 180 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model 12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 9.082 lbs / 4.119 kg 4 - 19,0" / 483 mm, 18,00 ft / 5,49 m torpedoes - 0,834 t each, 3,336 t total In 2 sets of submerged bow & stern tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 9,00" / 229 mm 335,00 ft / 102,11 m 10,43 ft / 3,18 m Ends: 4,00" / 102 mm 97,00 ft / 29,57 m 10,43 ft / 3,18 m Upper: 6,00" / 152 mm 275,00 ft / 83,82 m 8,00 ft / 2,44 m Main Belt covers 119% of normal length - Torpedo Bulkhead: 2,00" / 51 mm 180,80 ft / 55,11 m 24,14 ft / 7,36 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 11,0" / 279 mm 3,00" / 76 mm 9,00" / 229 mm 2nd: 1,00" / 25 mm - - - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 2,00" / 51 mm For and Aft decks - Conning towers: Forward 11,00" / 279 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, steam turbines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15.000 shp / 11.190 Kw = 18,48 kts Range 6.000nm at 10,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 2.252 tons (100% coal) Complement: 654 - 851 Cost: £1,469 million / $5,875 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1.611 tons, 11,2% - Guns: 1.607 tons, 11,2% - Torpedoes: 3 tons, 0,0% Armour: 4.440 tons, 31,0% - Belts: 2.080 tons, 14,5% - Torpedo bulkhead: 323 tons, 2,3% - Armament: 1.173 tons, 8,2% - Armour Deck: 725 tons, 5,1% - Conning Tower: 140 tons, 1,0% Machinery: 1.500 tons, 10,5% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.523 tons, 31,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.058 tons, 14,4% Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1,4% - Hull below water: 50 tons - Hull above water: 50 tons - On freeboard deck: 50 tons - Above deck: 50 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 15.996 lbs / 7.256 Kg = 18,5 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 2,7 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23 Metacentric height 4,8 ft / 1,5 m Roll period: 14,5 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,82 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,55 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,600 / 0,607 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,71 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 20,78 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 45 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -8,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,00 ft / 0,91 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20,00%, 22,86 ft / 6,97 m, 20,55 ft / 6,26 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 20,55 ft / 6,26 m, 20,55 ft / 6,26 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 12,55 ft / 3,83 m, 12,55 ft / 3,83 m - Quarter deck: 15,00%, 12,55 ft / 3,83 m, 12,55 ft / 3,83 m - Average freeboard: 16,73 ft / 5,10 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119,1% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113,0% Waterplane Area: 23.886 Square feet or 2.219 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92% Structure weight / hull surface area: 150 lbs/sq ft or 733 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,92 - Longitudinal: 2,12 - Overall: 1,00 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather The battleship design is basically a turbine driven, all big gun armed, slow battleship. A construction like this shouldn´t lead to a rapid devaluation of the existing, very strong UK Pre-Dreadnought battlefleet due to her lower speed (Pre-Dreads and ACR can keep their intended roles), while on her own is able to fight down any opposition in 1905. This design is also pretty small (Duncan-sized), and thus could be turned out in brief time if needed. The cheap production costs should allow Fisher more "ellbow-room" for other projects, financially spoken. HMS Archer, UK all big gun cruiser laid down 1904 Displacement: 12.224 t light; 12.859 t standard; 14.543 t normal; 15.890 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (485,00 ft / 482,00 ft) x 80,00 ft x (24,00 / 25,75 ft) (147,83 m / 146,91 m) x 24,38 m x (7,32 / 7,85 m) Armament: 8 - 12,00" / 305 mm 45,0 cal guns - 871,37lbs / 395,24kg shells, 80 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model 4 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread Aft Main mounts separated by engine room 10 - 4,00" / 102 mm 40,0 cal guns - 30,67lbs / 13,91kg shells, 180 per gun Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model 10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread Weight of broadside 7.278 lbs / 3.301 kg 4 - 19,0" / 483 mm, 18,00 ft / 5,49 m torpedoes - 0,834 t each, 3,336 t total In 2 sets of submerged bow & stern tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 6,00" / 152 mm 380,50 ft / 115,98 m 11,00 ft / 3,35 m Ends: 2,00" / 51 mm 101,50 ft / 30,94 m 10,00 ft / 3,05 m Main Belt covers 121% of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 9,00" / 229 mm 2,00" / 51 mm 6,00" / 152 mm - Armoured deck - single deck: 1,00" / 25 mm For and Aft decks - Conning towers: Forward 9,00" / 229 mm, Aft 0,00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, steam turbines, Direct drive, 4 shafts, 36.000 shp / 26.856 Kw = 23,40 kts Range 8.000nm at 10,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 3.031 tons (100% coal) Complement: 661 - 860 Cost: £1,596 million / $6,383 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1.291 tons, 8,9% - Guns: 1.288 tons, 8,9% - Torpedoes: 3 tons, 0,0% Armour: 2.343 tons, 16,1% - Belts: 1.126 tons, 7,7% - Armament: 648 tons, 4,5% - Armour Deck: 453 tons, 3,1% - Conning Tower: 116 tons, 0,8% Machinery: 3.600 tons, 24,8% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.890 tons, 33,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.318 tons, 15,9% Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,7% - On freeboard deck: 50 tons - Above deck: 50 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 10.630 lbs / 4.821 Kg = 12,3 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 1,5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,34 Metacentric height 6,0 ft / 1,8 m Roll period: 13,7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,51 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,20 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,550 / 0,560 Length to Beam Ratio: 6,03 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21,95 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,00 ft / 0,91 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 10,80%, 25,00 ft / 7,62 m, 21,00 ft / 6,40 m - Forward deck: 35,00%, 21,00 ft / 6,40 m, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m - Aft deck: 43,50%, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m - Quarter deck: 10,70%, 15,00 ft / 4,57 m, 16,00 ft / 4,88 m - Average freeboard: 16,92 ft / 5,16 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 121,4% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126,7% Waterplane Area: 26.911 Square feet or 2.500 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 91% Structure weight / hull surface area: 143 lbs/sq ft or 701 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,93 - Longitudinal: 1,81 - Overall: 1,00 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily This is the corresponding all big gun armed, turbine driven cruiser. It is slightly larger and more expansive than the battleship but in within tolerances and far cheaper than the historic designs. It is also reduced in construction speed to only incremental improvements over existing ACR in order keep their scouting abilities.
Joshua Kintner		#3	[-]
Registered Member Posts: 405 (26-Apr-2008 09:31:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	After battles in the Admiralty, Sir John Fisher reluctantly agrees to postpone the construction of the all-big-gun armored cruisers that would have become the Invincible class. The Lorn Nelson class won't be build. Instead, a class of four turbine-powered all-big-gun battleships is to be laid down in 1905. As the availability of docks is a concern, these ships should be only slightly larger than the previus KE-VII class - 453'8" x 79'6" x 26'. Squeezing the ship into the dimensions of the Duncan class (432' x 75' 6" x 25.6") would be a plus. So basically these ships are to be the "Dreadnought", but instead of being able to work with the historical dimensions of the ship, at 527 feet by 82 feet by 31 feet, we are instead limited to "slightly" larger than the KG7th class pre-dreadnought battleships, and would preferrably be of the Duncan class pre-dreadnought battleship sized, at 432 feet by 75 and a half feet by twenty five and a half feet. Range should be 6000nm@10kts. The ship is to use the new 12"/45 guns, but any other details (armament, protection, speed) is up to the designers. So range, size of main gun, and dimensions are defined, but everything else is left up the whim of the designers. Comments: Good luck getting a fast battleship out of those dimensions. As far as a big-gun ship goes, if it is patterened on KGVII, then maybe replace the wing 9.2" guns with single 12" gun turrets? Or arrange them in a rough hexagonal layout, like with one twin on port forward amidships, and the other twin turret on starboard aft amidships. But I think the easiest thing to do would be to have just three twin turrets on the centerline, one amidships. It would be interesting if someone could come up with something close to a SC class battleship on those dimensions.
P3D		#4	[-]
Posts: 811 (26-Apr-2008 10:17:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	NG: I hardly know anything about the political situation. I was wondering how the Dreadnought could have been built to make more sense. The ship historically was a one-off design for almost three years, too fast for the existing battleline but not fast enough to take on armored cruisers. Due to your objections the Lord Nelson can get built, it won't have much effect. I could introduce an earlier delta, so that the ships would be Lord Nelson replacements instead. Delcyros: The BB is a nice one, although protection is a clear step backward, and 5 turrets cannot fit on a small ship, on the centerline. But politicians would be thrilled with such an impressive an relatively cheap battleship. Why did you choose 1904 engine year? The battlecruiser version would not have similar dimensional restrictions. There are larger docks around, and some would be built eventually for larger ships - but I am not asking for such design. There was a similar topic a few months back IIRC that dealt with such.
Red Admiral		#5	[-]
Posts: 1860 (26-Apr-2008 10:45:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Something similar to Narbeth's 1905 design with conventional 4x2 arrangement. Springsharp might say it'll fit onto this hull but I'd be pretty sure that it's lying. laid down 1905 Displacement: 15,312 t light; 15,990 t standard; 17,318 t normal; 18,381 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (457.00 ft / 454.00 ft) x 79.00 ft x (26.00 / 27.35 ft) (139.29 m / 138.38 m) x 24.08 m x (7.92 / 8.34 m) Armament: 8 - 12.00" / 305 mm 45.0 cal guns - 871.37lbs / 395.24kg shells, 80 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model 4 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread 2 raised mounts - superfiring 14 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 45.0 cal guns - 13.62lbs / 6.18kg shells, 200 per gun Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model 14 x Single mounts on sides amidships Weight of broadside 7,162 lbs / 3,248 kg Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 320.00 ft / 97.54 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m Ends: 5.00" / 127 mm 130.00 ft / 39.62 m 12.00 ft / 3.66 m 4.00 ft / 1.22 m Unarmoured ends Upper: 8.00" / 203 mm 320.00 ft / 97.54 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length - Torpedo Bulkhead: 2.00" / 51 mm 200.00 ft / 60.96 m 24.00 ft / 7.32 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 11.0" / 279 mm 5.00" / 127 mm 9.00" / 229 mm - Armoured deck - multiple decks: 2.00" / 51 mm For and Aft decks Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm - Conning towers: Forward 11.00" / 279 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, steam turbines, Direct drive, 4 shafts, 28,000 shp / 20,888 Kw = 21.03 kts Range 6,000nm at 10.00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 2,391 tons (100% coal) Complement: 754 - 981 Cost: £1.523 million / $6.091 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1,555 tons, 9.0 % Armour: 5,875 tons, 33.9 % - Belts: 3,040 tons, 17.6 % - Torpedo bulkhead: 355 tons, 2.1 % - Armament: 1,344 tons, 7.8 % - Armour Deck: 977 tons, 5.6 % - Conning Tower: 159 tons, 0.9 % Machinery: 2,333 tons, 13.5 % Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,550 tons, 32.0 % Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,006 tons, 11.6 % Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 % Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 21,328 lbs / 9,674 Kg = 24.7 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14 Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m Roll period: 15.7 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 60 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.70 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.19 Hull form characteristics: Hull has rise forward of midbreak, a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.650 / 0.656 Length to Beam Ratio: 5.75 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 21.31 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees Stern overhang: 3.00 ft / 0.91 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 20.00 %, 24.00 ft / 7.32 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m - Forward deck: 30.00 %, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m, 22.00 ft / 6.71 m - Aft deck: 35.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m - Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m, 14.00 ft / 4.27 m - Average freeboard: 18.16 ft / 5.54 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.5 % - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.8 % Waterplane Area: 27,475 Square feet or 2,553 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 % Structure weight / hull surface area: 162 lbs/sq ft or 791 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0.99 - Longitudinal: 2.08 - Overall: 1.07 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
delcyros		#6	[-]
Posts: 1733 (26-Apr-2008 12:08:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	P3D wrote: Delcyros: The BB is a nice one, although protection is a clear step backward, and 5 turrets cannot fit on a small ship, on the centerline. But politicians would be thrilled with such an impressive an relatively cheap battleship. Why did you choose 1904 engine year? The battlecruiser version would not have similar dimensional restrictions. There are larger docks around, and some would be built eventually for larger ships - but I am not asking for such design. There was a similar topic a few months back IIRC that dealt with such. Basically I choosed 1904 because this date returned very nice and round engine weight numbers (1.500t. for the battleship and 3.600t. for the cruiser, respectively) and more realistic ones, too. I am not sure if five 12" twin turrets couldn´t fit into such a ship. If possible I would choose compact echelon distribution but SS offers me distributed, only. I have resimmed it with SS3.0 beta 3. It may get very narrow, indeed (and a very small TDS depth) but probably not impossible on the hull. The Dominator can be single funneled with a smaller midship bridge construction and no superstructures on the centerline aft as HMS DREADNOUGHT. The rearmost turret can then be moved closer to Y. Layout and protective scheme is now comparable to HMS DREADNOUGHT, engine date is 1905 for comparison reasons. HMS Dominator, UK all-big-gun battleship laid down 1905 Displacement: 12.390 t light; 13.160 t standard; 14.333 t normal; 15.271 t full load Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep) (435,00 ft / 432,00 ft) x 75,60 ft x (25,60 / 26,97 ft) (132,59 m / 131,67 m) x 23,04 m x (7,80 / 8,22 m) Armament: 10 - 12,00" / 305 mm 45,0 cal guns - 871,37lbs / 395,24kg shells, 100 per gun Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model 3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread 2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships Weight of broadside 8.714 lbs / 3.952 kg Main Torpedoes 4 - 19,0" / 483 mm, 16,00 ft / 4,88 m torpedoes - 0,777 t each, 3,109 t total submerged bow & stern tubes Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 11,0" / 279 mm 280,80 ft / 85,59 m 10,43 ft / 3,18 m Ends: 4,00" / 102 mm 151,18 ft / 46,08 m 15,00 ft / 4,57 m Upper: 8,00" / 203 mm 280,80 ft / 85,59 m 4,67 ft / 1,42 m Main Belt covers 100% of normal length - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads: 2,00" / 51 mm 180,80 ft / 55,11 m 24,14 ft / 7,36 m Beam between torpedo bulkheads 63,00 ft / 19,20 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 11,0" / 279 mm 4,00" / 102 mm 9,00" / 229 mm - Protected deck - multiple decks: For and Aft decks: 2,25" / 57 mm Forecastle: 2,00" / 51 mm Quarter deck: 2,00" / 51 mm - Conning towers: Forward 11,00" / 279 mm, Aft 6,00" / 152 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, steam turbines, Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15.000 shp / 11.190 Kw = 18,48 kts Range 6.000nm at 10,00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 2.110 tons (100% coal) Complement: 654 - 851 Cost: £1,422 million / $5,688 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 1.555 tons, 10,8% - Guns: 1.549 tons, 10,8% - Weapons: 6 tons, 0,0% Armour: 5.046 tons, 35,2% - Belts: 2.237 tons, 15,6% - Torpedo bulkhead: 323 tons, 2,3% - Armament: 1.290 tons, 9,0% - Armour Deck: 981 tons, 6,8% - Conning Towers: 216 tons, 1,5% Machinery: 1.250 tons, 8,7% Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.239 tons, 29,6% Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.943 tons, 13,6% Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 2,1% - Hull below water: 50 tons - Hull above water: 150 tons - On freeboard deck: 50 tons - Above deck: 50 tons Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 17.037 lbs / 7.728 Kg = 19,7 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 5,0 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,18 Metacentric height 4,5 ft / 1,4 m Roll period: 15,0 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,85 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,50 Hull form characteristics: Hull has low quarterdeck , a normal bow and a cruiser stern Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,600 / 0,607 Length to Beam Ratio: 5,71 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 20,78 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -3,00 degrees Stern overhang: 3,00 ft / 0,91 m Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length): Fore end, Aft end - Forecastle: 17,50%, 22,90 ft / 6,98 m, 18,00 ft / 5,49 m - Forward deck: 30,00%, 18,00 ft / 5,49 m, 16,20 ft / 4,94 m - Aft deck: 35,00%, 16,20 ft / 4,94 m, 16,20 ft / 4,94 m - Quarter deck: 17,50%, 12,00 ft / 3,66 m, 12,00 ft / 3,66 m - Average freeboard: 16,39 ft / 5,00 m Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 97,8% - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115,6% Waterplane Area: 23.886 Square feet or 2.219 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 92% Structure weight / hull surface area: 151 lbs/sq ft or 736 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0,92 - Longitudinal: 2,09 - Overall: 1,00 Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space Adequate accommodation and workspace room Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather Warning: No. of mounts must equal No. of gun - 2nd Battery (note: I cannot add secondary guns. This returns an n/a rating, I thus reserved 100t. misc. weight to sim the 4"/40 casematte mounted anti torpedoboat QF guns with mounts and magazines) The machinery is now a lot lighter, probably to light to be realistic. I would expect in between 1.500 to 1.700t., rather than 1.250t. machinery weights for a 15.000 SHP turbine powerplant, judging from DREADNOUGHTS 2.050t. for 23.000SHP construction power. Last Edited By: delcyros 26-Apr-2008 12:22:56. Edited 1 times.
PMN1		#7	[-]
Posts: 3487 (26-Apr-2008 17:31:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Got this form Warship Projects a while back From Anatomy of the Ship Battleship Dreadnought by John Roberts, among other designs of the time Design A2 8 x 12" guns in pairs (as the later QE) Protection practically as Lord Nelson 16500 tons, turbines for 22000 hp and 21 kn 440'x83'x27' No diagrams, but easy enough to imagine like Minas Geraes without the wing turrets, though I would expect Narbeth to put the spotting top clear of the smoke; i.e. mast before funnel - there's deck space for kingposts to handle the boats, without the wing turrets.
Dave Bender	Massive armoured cruiser problem	#8	[-]
Posts: 6461 (26-Apr-2008 18:40:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	All the nations mentioned have been neutralized via diplomacy. Which does not mean they will remain friendly forever. However Britain can afford to take a break from building cruiser killers for a couple years. That will save some money in the short term.
NewGolconda		#9	[-]
Posts: 3305 (26-Apr-2008 22:39:38) Commonwealth Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	'I hardly know anything about the political situation." Have you read Massies "Dreadnought"? or even better Lamberts "Sir John Fishers Naval Revolution"? The political situation was intergral to the whole design process, and the subsequent years programmes.
Dave Bender	Have you read Massies "Dreadnought"?	#10	[-]
Posts: 6462 (26-Apr-2008 22:59:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes. And I disagree that there was a direct connection between military requirements and military construction in either Britain or Germany. The admirals just wanted to expand their naval kingdoms.

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