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NewGolconda |
Sydney Search Sails |
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Posts: 3176 (28-Feb-2008 23:03:22) Commonwealth Moderator |
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jim3au |
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Posts: 1355 (16-Mar-2008 05:35:04) |
And today, Sunday, March 16, finds Kormoran.
http://news.theage.com.au/wreck-of-german-raider-kormoran-found/20080316-1zpx.html This was confirmed today and announced by the Prime Minister. They have not found Sydney but they may well have found the right haystack to search. It is a considerable achievement all by itself. |
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chrisRoach |
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Posts: 103 (16-Mar-2008 06:35:37) |
Interesting news. How's it been confirmed? Actual photos of the wreck or just a mass of metal of about the right size in about the right place?
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bager1968 |
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Posts: 2854 (16-Mar-2008 09:09:30) |
* By Scopical News/Data
* Published: 16 March 2008 3:45pm Kormoran found off WA, high hopes for HMAS Sydney There are high hopes that an enduring maritime mystery will soon be laid to rest, following the discovery of the HSK Kormoran off the West Australian coast. Today Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced the finding of the ship, with the 'Finding Sydney Foundation' now confident of locating the HMAS Sydney nearby. HMAS Sydney II was tragically lost in November 1941 in the Indian Ocean with its entire crew of 645, following a furious engagement with the German raider HSK Kormoran,. Now that the Kormoran is found, her position can help pin-point the Sydney's final resting place. The wreck of the Kormoran was located approximately 112 nautical miles off Steep Point, Western Australia lying in 2,560 metres of water. "The sonar imagery shows two large pieces of the Kormoran hull remaining,... and already, less than five nautical miles south of Kormorans position the search team have found what they believe is the main battle site," Defence Science Minister Warren Snowdon said. Chairman of the Finding Sydney Foundation Mr Ted Graham said it was great to have found the Kormoran so early in the search. "We now have more time to refine and continue our search for HMAS Sydney II, and we have devised a new search box which will be explored over the next 25-30 days," he said. Minister Snowdon said that the Federal Republic of Germany had been advised of the discovery of the HSK Kormoran, and the Environment Minister is being consulted to ensure the wreck site is protected. Prime Minister Rudd said that the finding was a vital first step. "Finding the Kormoran is one big step forward," he said. "Of course that does not mean that the search has yet found the Sydney itself but it does play one significant step closer. "All of us concerned about this great ship and those of us who are concerned about what happened to the 645 brave souls who went down with her, have all these years been wondering where she lay and what in the end actually happened." |
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bager1968 |
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Posts: 2856 (16-Mar-2008 09:42:50) |
Much more info here:
http://presspass.findingsydney.com/blogs/search_reports/archive/2008/03/15/HSK-Kormoran-Discovered.aspx HSK Kormoran Discovered David Mearns - Search Director, The Finding Sydney Foundation Wreck of HSK Kormoran Discovered "The wreckage of the German Raider HSK Kormoran was found by the search team on board the SV Geosounder at 17:30 (AWDT) on March 12th, 2008 in the approximate position 26° 05' 49.4" S 111° 04' 27.5" E. With Kormoran's sinking position established, and the identity of its wreckage confirmed on the basis of high quality sonar imagery, the search for HMAS Sydney (II) has been localised to a most probable area and this search is currently ongoing. Kormoran's wreckage consists mainly of several pieces of hull amidst a large and dense field of debris, which is indicative of a ship that has suffered a catastrophic explosion. Following the initial discovery of the wreckage field using the 6 kilometre swathe of the SM30 sonar, a series of higher resolution sonar images were made that revealed additional information to confirm the identity of the wreck and its condition, as summarised below: * The wreckage of Kormoran was first found on Line #09 in the northeast quadrant of the designated 1,768 nm² search box. Line #09 was the fourth search trackline to be run and the SM30 sonar had been deployed for approximately 64 hours in the search box (excluding the time for turns) when the wreckage was first discovered. The depth of the site is approximately 2,560 metres. * The wreckage fits perfectly with what we know and expected to see for Kormoran from testimony of the German survivors. The vessel suffered a catastrophic explosion after its cache of some 320 mines stored in the after cargo holds 4, 5 and 6 detonated. This section of the vessel's hull has been obliterated. * There are 4 large pieces of hull structure remaining. The two largest pieces are located hundreds of metres outside the main debris field and approximately 1,200 metres from each other on a line running roughly north-south. The distant locations of these pieces indicate that they sank after the explosion and/or took different glide planes in their descent to the seabed. * The largest piece of hull measures approximately 106 metres long by at least 20 metres wide and has been identified as the forward half of the ship that extends roughly from the engine room to the stem. It is sitting upright on the seabed with a height of approximately 13 metres. The high resolution sonar lines made in this area were focused on this piece because it offered the greatest chance to confirm the wreck as Kormoran by using the acoustic shadows "thrown" by the bow's shape to see if it matched Kormoran's bow. * In addition to matching the known breadth of Kormoran, which was significantly greater than Sydney's breadth, the piece was revealed to have a raised forecastle deck like Kormoran. The forward part of the bridge superstructure was intact at roughly the correct distance from the stem. Lastly, the sonar imagery indicates an opening in the deck in approximately the correct position for the forward cargo hold. * The other large pieces of hull were not able to be identified. However, based on their dimensions and position relative to the blast, it is possible that these pieces are the stern/poop deck and at least part of the engine room/hull structure aft of the main bridge superstructure. Scene of Engagement between Kormoran & Sydney Found On line #09, less than 4 nautical miles south of the Kormoran wreckage position a separate and distinct debris field was found at 19:16 (AWDT) on March 12th, 2008. This debris was found to be widely scattered over a distance covering 1,700 metres and lying at a depth of 2,740 metres. However, it was not associated with any major shipwreck targets and was very sparse compared with the dense debris field found at the centre of Kormoran's wreck location. As Kormoran left the battle intact and was known to have drifted north with the prevailing current and winds after losing engine power, it is logical to conclude that this debris could not have come from Kormoran. However, the location of this wreckage in relation to the known movements of Kormoran in the final stages of the battle and her estimated leeway drift before sinking, does indicate that it marks the actual scene of action between Kormoran and Sydney. This debris, therefore, must have come from Sydney as we know she had been gravely damaged by a torpedo hit and was being heavily shelled by Kormoran and in such a situation would have been losing pieces of structure and other parts of the ship overboard as was vividly described by the German eyewitnesses. Finally, the approximate NNE - SSW trend of this debris trail fits with the course of Sydney as she altered course south to avoid Kormoran's fire. Revised Planned Search Area for Sydney Confirmation of Kormoran's sinking position, as well as the location of the action between Kormoran and Sydney, has allowed me to refine the most probable sinking position of Sydney and outline a new search area for her wreck. This search for Sydney is currently ongoing. Compared with the extremely large search area for Kormoran the initial search area for Sydney is relatively small and covers several hundred square nautical miles. Key to this initial search area are certain assumptions made about how far Sydney could have travelled away from the scene of action given the grave damage she had suffered - now proven by the extent and size of her wreckage found at the scene of action - and how long she could have remained afloat in such extreme condition. Based upon the location of Kormoran, and the high quality sonar imagery that is being collected by the Williamson and Associates sonar team, I am confident that if the wreck of Sydney lies within our search area we will find her. Should this initial search area prove unsuccessful, the search area will be enlarged until the wreck of Sydney is found." More info, including the reports of the Official Observers (one a RANR Lt) and sonar images) are there as well. |
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rabid stoat AUS |
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Posts: 68 (16-Mar-2008 10:48:45) |
Must be tempting to stick around and take a proper look at the Kormoran. I hope they're not being too optimistic at this point. Having read Ballard's
Titanic and Bismark books it seems to me luck is a MAJOR factor.
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jim3au |
Major Announcement Today | ||
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Posts: 1357 (17-Mar-2008 00:37:25) |
The team has announced that there will be a news conference at lunchtime. Overnight they have found pieces that could be the wreck of Sydney. They expect to
confirm or otherwise this morning.
They are talking about four to ten kilometres from the position of Kormoran. There is no way that this find will stop conspiracy theories. Tim Fischer, former Deputy Prime Minister was on the radio ticking off the various theories that will be disproved if the wrecks are found where they are now looking. Let me get the ball rolling. If the wreck of the Sydney and Kormoran are four kilometres apart, then it is most likely that Kormoran's crew had a perfect view of the dying Sydney and her dying crew. Even at ten kilometres apart, that is only maybe just out of sight of Kormoran. Kormoran did not sink immediately after the battle. She supposedly drifted for some days before she was scuttled. her crew abandoned ship in several batches. They did not see Sydney sink. The ship was without main engine power but otherwise habitable and certainly not sinking. After a day or two drifting they are only ten kilometres from where Sydney sank when Kormoran is scuttled. There are some expert shipwreck detectives on the job and, if as looks very likely, the wrecks of Kormoran and Sydney are found and filmed, there will be some solid facts that will have to be explained. |
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pascaly |
Found her | ||
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Posts: 1485 (17-Mar-2008 00:58:28) |
It's been confirmed, they found the wreck of HMAS Sydney about 10 miles away from the Kormoran. It's good to finally have some kind of resolution,
particularly for the families, but in a way, it's sad that the mystery is over.
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CliffS |
Agreed, it's frustrating for the historians... | ||
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Posts: 484 (17-Mar-2008 03:47:06) |
pascaly wrote: ...but the site will, I'm sure, be declared as an official War Grave. And rightly so - the families of both ships' companies deserve that consideration. Cheers, Cliff |
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chrisRoach |
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Posts: 104 (17-Mar-2008 04:27:39) |
jim3au wrote: Some days? I don't think so. From what I recall the Kormoran was still afloat well into the evening, but her crew had abandoned ship and she'd sunk well before dawn the next day.
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rabid stoat AUS |
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Posts: 69 (17-Mar-2008 05:20:46) |
I still have trouble believing it. I wouldn't have announced a damn THING until I'd sent cameras down there. Have they done that yet? Hope for their
sake they're right!
Well, I better play it safe and start saving up now for all the documentary DVDs and coffee table books on this one! |
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