Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Admiral Beez) — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:17:21 GMT

The Argies have no way of stopping the half dozen RN SSNs off the islands from launching a continuous stream of TLAM against the airfield and Harpoons and Spearfish/Tigerfish against anything else. Only logistics and TLAM/Harpoon supply will slow down the bombardment, with the RN SSNs needing to return to a forward base (Ascension, until the airfield at Cristian de Cuha opens) to restock.

Isn't there also talk of making the Mica anti-air missile submarine capable? Per this...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Fri, 09 May 2008 05:35:32 GMT

wabpilot wrote:

Alexius55 wrote:

Would/could the RAF set up explosives to put the runway at MPA beyond use- or at least beyond use by non-Harrier fast jets- in the event of an attack?

LOL, the Argies have a super-secret material that neutralizes runway cratering...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (wabpilot) — Fri, 09 May 2008 03:04:48 GMT

Alexius55 wrote:

Would/could the RAF set up explosives to put the runway at MPA beyond use- or at least beyond use by non-Harrier fast jets- in the event of an attack?

LOL, the Argies have a super-secret material that neutralizes runway cratering explosives..............................................................................

It's...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Alexius55) — Thu, 08 May 2008 20:35:06 GMT

Obi Wan Russell wrote:

I agree 100%. If Argentina wants the Falklands back by force then the next ten years (ie before CVF/JSF becomes fully operational are the years of maximum risk (for the British). As I said, it will most likely start with a special forces attack at night on MPA to put the pitifully few RAF aircraft out of action and secure the base. requisitioned airliners will then bring in as many...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Admiral Beez) — Wed, 07 May 2008 15:39:39 GMT

Knowing the Argentinas and their penchant for poorly timing their last invasion (i.e. should have waited until Invincible was sold off, or until Maggie is kicked out of office, Argentinian coup risk be damned), they'll likely attempt to invade the islands six months after the two Queen Elizabeth class CVs are commissioned with their now well trained JSF airgroup, along with the first four to six Type 45 destroyers and a few Astute SSNs. Next, add in a Conservative government in London...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Wed, 07 May 2008 14:48:43 GMT

wabpilot wrote:

Obi Wan Russell wrote:
... in 82 the Argentine fighters performed so poorly because they awere at the end of their range, and could not risk dogfighting.
The British also exploited a mismatch in capability. They stayed in the middle altitudes where the Sea Harrier had a definite advantage over the Mirage III. The Argies, fully aware...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (wabpilot) — Wed, 07 May 2008 14:37:20 GMT

Obi Wan Russell wrote:
... in 82 the Argentine fighters performed so poorly because they awere at the end of their range, and could not risk dogfighting.

The British also exploited a mismatch in capability. They stayed in the middle altitudes where the Sea Harrier had a definite advantage over the Mirage III. The Argies, fully aware of the Mirage III's less than stellar performance in the middle altitudes were...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (emc) — Wed, 07 May 2008 13:54:56 GMT

NewGolconda wrote:
"I would make use of the very best maritime strike aircraft available in the southern hemisphere"

When did the RAAF F-111's get Harpoon?

Right after Australia signed the treaty allying themselves with Argentina.

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Wed, 07 May 2008 12:00:04 GMT

Some knid of FAA Fighter force should go to MPA with the 'MPAs', becuase after a three to four week gap the RN might turn up with Illustrious and Ark Royal and just about every Harrier the RAF doesn't need for airshow duty... in 82 the Argentine fighters performed so poorly because they awere at the end of their range, and could not risk dogfighting. If they were ased at MPA the RN becomes the force at a serious disadvantage (indeed they already since the GR7/9 is even less...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (NewGolconda) — Wed, 07 May 2008 06:35:20 GMT

"I would make use of the very best maritime strike aircraft available in the southern hemisphere"

When did the RAAF F-111's get Harpoon?

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (wabpilot) — Wed, 07 May 2008 06:08:53 GMT

Obi Wan Russell wrote:
Were I planning the hypothetical Argentine second invasion, I wouldn't start with an air attack, I'd look at putting special forces ashore to take out the RAFs fighters at MPA before they got into the air. Not an easy task by any means, but that's why they are called 'Special Forces'. If they succeeded, the Argentines could simply fly troops directly to the islandsto gain a foothold and...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Admiral Beez) — Tue, 06 May 2008 21:01:29 GMT

Okay, you so take out the Mount Pleasant airbase. Then, you base your late 1970's era Mirages and Daggers there. However, this is not the early 1980s. So, you're going to have 2008's RN show up with submarine launched TLAM to take out your late 1970's fighters, plus every ship they can find. Sure, the RN doesn't have SHAR any more, but the latest Harriers will do well for ground attack, but if you don't hurry up and invade soon, your old Daggers and Skyhawks will need...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Tue, 06 May 2008 15:07:59 GMT

Were I planning the hypothetical Argentine second invasion, I wouldn't start with an air attack, I'd look at putting special forces ashore to take out the RAFs fighters at MPA before they got into the air. Not an easy task by any means, but that's why they are called 'Special Forces'. If they succeeded, the Argentines could simply fly troops directly to the islandsto gain a foothold and make reinforcement by air from the UK impossible. MPA is now the most important...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (wabpilot) — Tue, 06 May 2008 14:40:47 GMT

Obi Wan Russell wrote:
A surplus of Sea Harriers no. But open production lines running at nowhere near capacity? Oh yes. Postwar the RAF ordered a batch of 17 Harrier GR3s for attrition purposes at the same time the RN ordered more SHARS. They could have ordered those aircraft as SHARS for the purpose of basing at Stanley.

Without AEW, a whole squadron of Sea Harriers is not much good, especially when tied to one...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Tue, 06 May 2008 10:42:06 GMT

A surplus of Sea Harriers no. But open production lines running at nowhere near capacity? Oh yes. Postwar the RAF ordered a batch of 17 Harrier GR3s for attrition purposes at the same time the RN ordered more SHARS. They could have ordered those aircraft as SHARS for the purpose of basing at Stanley. The 'proper' airfield they built is very nice, and I'm sure some Argentine General is eyeing up his new office there as we speak. The problem is four fighters will not hold off a...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (wabpilot) — Tue, 06 May 2008 04:52:49 GMT

Obi Wan Russell wrote:
The short answer is neither the Jaguar nor the Super Etendard was operable from Stanley's airfield in 1982.

So Sharky Ward was right, the best solution to air defence of the Falklands was to base Hariers there, a mix of FRS1s for AD and GR3s to repel any land forces. AEW Sea Kings added to the mix and the runway extension becomes unecessary. Of course this really only applies postwar....

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (emc) — Mon, 05 May 2008 16:54:58 GMT

Zen9 wrote:
Leap of logic?
At least one frigate and an SSN where sent south, time I can't remember, but certainly during the 70's, and at a time when Argentina was making noises about the Falklands.
Can I remember the specifics....no, its some time ago since I read this stuff.

Domestic politics where certainly the driver for Argentina, but they would only act if they thought they stood a...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Mon, 05 May 2008 14:28:21 GMT

The short answer is neither the Jaguar nor the Super Etendard was operable from Stanley's airfield in 1982.

So Sharky Ward was right, the best solution to air defence of the Falklands was to base Hariers there, a mix of FRS1s for AD and GR3s to repel any land forces. AEW Sea Kings added to the mix and the runway extension becomes unecessary. Of course this really only applies postwar. Prewar is another matter...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (wabpilot) — Mon, 05 May 2008 14:02:31 GMT

taschoene wrote:
I'm not sure where you got that runway figure. I'm looking at Jane's from 1982-83 and it gives the following:

Take-off Run: 565m (Clean), 880m (4x1000-lb bombs), 1250 (8x1,000-lb bombs)
Landing run: 470m (normal wt, with chute), 680m (normal wt, no chute)

The pre-war Stanley airfield was around 920 m long, so in theory it was long enough to operate Jaguars at...

Re: Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Mon, 05 May 2008 12:04:26 GMT

Leap of logic?
At least one frigate and an SSN where sent south, time I can't remember, but certainly during the 70's, and at a time when Argentina was making noises about the Falklands.
Can I remember the specifics....no, its some time ago since I read this stuff.

Domestic politics where certainly the driver for Argentina, but they would only act if they thought they stood a chance, and so they kept a close watch on what we where doing and saying over the...

Could SEPECAT Jaguar operated from Stanley airfield in 1982?

feeds@yuku.com (Admiral Beez) — Sun, 04 May 2008 05:24:16 GMT

IIRC, the SEPECAT Jaguar was designed with STOL in mind. With its STOL capability could the Jaguar have operated from Stanley airfield in 1982? Did the Jaguar have air refueling capability in 1982 in order to get the planes there in time? Assuming the Jaguars can make it to the islands a few weeks prior to the invasion, you'll also need to get fuel, logistics and airfield SAM assets into the base. If we can get all that together, and assuming the Jaguars can take off and land at Stanley,...