Is CVF save if the tories win next election

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (PK) — Thu, 15 May 2008 21:47:45 GMT

French sources speculate about a joint Anglo-French announcement of CVF and PA.2 in the middle of June. As the new White Book on Defence will be published shortly, it would give Mr. Sarkozy some weeks to prepare financial arrangements etc.
Bad press due to cuts or delays in other programs would hopefully disappear among Football News..

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Anthony58) — Thu, 15 May 2008 00:23:20 GMT

By Danny Fortson, Business Correspondent
Wednesday, 14 May 2008

VT Group expects the Ministry of Defence to end years of delays to the building of two Royal Navy aircraft carriers by giving the go-ahead to the £3.8bn programme "within weeks".

The company was forced to extend the timeframe to consummate a shipbuilding venture with BAE Systems, announced last year, to July on the expectation of an imminent decision from the MoD. Doubts...

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Nathan) — Wed, 14 May 2008 21:22:03 GMT

"If CVFs' spec was changed to include Nuclear power, the gap between the prices would narrow significantly."

Well yes. And if CVF's spec was altered to add 4 EMCATS, 2 more lifts and a few thousand tons more steel the price difference would disappear (probably go the other way - given the US experience and infrastructure advantage and weakness of the dollar) but so would the difference in capability. That's the lesson of every RN and USN study of smaller,...

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:51:41 GMT

CVN 21 (USS Gerald Ford CVN-78) is a new design, with new features such as EMALS. It will cost noticeably more than the previous Nimitz class even with the established skills base simply because it is the first of a new class and not just an upgraded Nimitz. The price difference is therefore reasonable. Remeber the US carriers are nuclear powered and CVF will be GT powered, which will account for a significant difference in cost as well. If CVFs' spec was changed to include Nuclear power,...

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (hulahoop7) — Wed, 14 May 2008 08:47:19 GMT

Well CVN21 to be deliverd in 2015 is going to cost $8bn including R&D (according to wikipedia). £4bn a pop. That sounds more like it.

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Wed, 14 May 2008 08:42:20 GMT

The price tag is misleading. The ships themselves (including equipment) will not actually cost much more than £1-£1.5 Billion each. The rest of the money is about rebuilding and reshaping the UK shipbuilding industry. The American CVNs are being built on an already existing production line so they reap the benefits of economies of scale, and have been doing so with the Nimitzes for forty years now. How much do you think they would cost if they had to build them from scratch now?

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Richard B) — Wed, 14 May 2008 01:12:12 GMT

It's perhaps worth pointing out that the often quoted £3.9 bn maximum price for CVF manufacture (i.e. excluding already incurred Assessment and Demonstration costs) was baselined in 1 Jan 2007 money - and a considerable element of that sum was MOD supplied equipment and materials whose price remains fully subject to market forces until ordered. Inflation adjusted the MOD is now staring at £4.2 bn and rising, and I wouldn't be surprised if that agreed price is subject to...

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Rob) — Tue, 13 May 2008 14:41:23 GMT

CEO of Babcock said today that he wouldn't be surprised about an annoucement this week.

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:28:01 GMT

The political dimension of CVF is currently the most important. Brown is on the ropes, and needs to win back votes. Ordering CVF will secure a lot of jobs and help answer criticism from the Tories and others about underfunding defence (we all know the truth of the matter, but to joe public it will be a step in the right direction) and as politically the CVF order is aimed at the Scottish Nationalists and not the Tories, also as the Tories have been badgering the government to 'get on with...

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (perfectgeneral) — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:42:25 GMT

If local political interest in preserving jobs is all that is keeping CVF safe then electing a tory government would put the project under greater threat. We have no assurance that the tories would want two aircraft carriers or even that they would pursue a foreign policy that required power projection.

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Phil Gollin) — Tue, 13 May 2008 08:22:58 GMT

On the "Today" programme (Radio 4) there was an interview with a representative of VT Group from about 7.15 to 7.18 am which basically came down to Yes - we expect the contracts to be signed in the next few weeks, and we will be joining up with BAE in some way

The item will probably be repeated around 8.15 this morning, or else on the "listen again" feature on the internet.

.

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (JNiemczyk) — Mon, 12 May 2008 19:54:06 GMT

"The MoD is to agree a contract for the ships in the next few weeks, defence sources say"

Funny how the contract is always going to be signed next month, or in just a few weeks.

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Sunk at Narvik) — Mon, 12 May 2008 09:44:29 GMT

"The MoD is to agree a contract for the ships in the next few weeks, defence sources say"

Only a YEAR after the announcement to Parliament that orders would be placed.

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (david h) — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:51:34 GMT

A small piece from the Times today, buried in the "News In Brief" -

"MoD spending cuts

The Ministry of Defence is to review its procurement projects in an attempt to save money. Only a contract to build two 60,000-tonne aircraft carriers for the Royal Navy, at a cost of nearly £4 billion, is ring-fenced. The MoD is to agree a contract for the ships in the next few weeks, defence sources say. "

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (jock) — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:44:12 GMT

I still wonder under either Lab or Tory if they might wriggle out of this by ordering CVF1 but never 2, thereby saving face and saying "we ordered CVF as we said we would." The RN would therefore get a CVF, a bit of £ would be saved, the shipyards would get some work and how much of the UK public would be bothered by CVF2's non arrival?

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (windsordaw) — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:13:15 GMT

I found it unbelievable that the carriers are only safe because of the location of where they will be built, it seems the done thing now to accept such things, the ships have a valid reason to be built thu 2 seems to be strange as i always was lead to believe that 3 ships to keep one on station, why have we gone to pairs now 8 type45 8 astute ssn, not wanting to dream fleet here but what about have what the 98SDR called for
12 type 45
18 various frigates
12 ssn
and what...

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Mikey) — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:27:22 GMT

Richard, if it was good news, wouldn't it have been announced before the May 1st elections, or at least the Crewe by-election.

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (JNiemczyk) — Thu, 08 May 2008 23:13:57 GMT

If it does happen hopefully it will be positive news - maybe it's the Navy turn for a big good news story following from todays FRES announcement for the Army and the recent signing of the Tanker Aircraft deal for the RAF.

So it is going to be the GD Piranha V then.

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Richard B) — Thu, 08 May 2008 23:05:54 GMT

The expectation for the last month or two has been that the MOD will make an announcement on the CVF project around the end of May. I've heard that from several sources, a contact at BAES recently reconfirmed that was still his understanding, and the media now seems to be picking up the line as well.

If it does happen hopefully it will be positive news - maybe it's the Navy turn for a big good news story following from todays FRES announcement for the Army and the recent...

Re: Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Sun, 04 May 2008 23:15:15 GMT

It may be a sad reflection on the state of our politicians, but we maybe more dependant on events in the US election than our own.
If McCain wins then he will press us to do more, and thats the opening where something might give.
But if we see someone like Obama win and do what he says he will do, then we will have to follow them out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and the politicians here will be sorely tempted to cut even more.

Is CVF save if the tories win next election

feeds@yuku.com (windsordaw) — Sat, 03 May 2008 16:07:51 GMT

Hi All i had always thought that the tories were a safer bet for the armed forces, but i remember an interview itv done with the tories defence minister when he was asked wether his party would invest more in defence he did not answer the question but said thet they might reduce comitments.
Do you belive the tories would be better for defence or the same as the present bunch of well i feel the word traitors sums up the present government treatment of the armed forces.