Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/6077/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html en-us Copyright 2006, Yuku feeds@yuku.com (FeedMaster) webmaster@yuku.com (WebMaster) Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:57:44 GMT Tue, 20 May 2008 16:48:18 GMT Yuku Feeds 1.0 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss 60 Yuku http://static.yuku.com//feed/bypass/images/button-yuku.png http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/6077/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html Yuku - free hosted forums and profiles 88 31 {pics-1.1 "http://www.icra.org/ratingsv02.html" l gen true for "http://yuku.com" r (nz 1 vz 1 lz 1 oz 1 cz 1 ) "http://www.rsac.org/ratingsv01.html" l gen true for "http://yuku.com" r (n 0 s 0 v 0 l 0 )) Search Search Domain q http://yuku.com/search/direct/ <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/79962/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-79962 http feeds@yuku.com (robdab) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/79962 Tue, 20 May 2008 16:45:17 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/79850/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-79850
I agree that this is a VERY complex subject but you are looking for combat radius data while these charts present theoretical MAXIMUM range data only, not radius details. The wartime answers that you want would depend on the inclusion of much more mission specific information, much of which the aircrew could only "guesstimate" and keep a fuel reserve to answer for.

The data charted includes runway surface type for take-off distance and fuel since a... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (robdab) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/79850 Mon, 19 May 2008 15:37:00 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/79824/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-79824 robdab wrote:
I finally found some manual information about B-17C ranges at http://www.tailwheel.nl/downloads/boeingb17chandbooksmall.pdf

And wrt the B-17F/G at feeds@yuku.com (jlyons97) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/79824 Mon, 19 May 2008 04:31:57 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/79785/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-79785 http://www.tailwheel.nl/downloads/boeingb17chandbooksmall.pdf

And wrt the B-17F/G at feeds@yuku.com (robdab) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/79785 Sun, 18 May 2008 16:18:27 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/79666/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-79666
Actually, the ten VF-8 F4F-4s of the the Hornet's Strike Escort Hornet that force-landed at sea on out of fuel on 4 June did not do so because they did not have enough fuel to get home. Do to poor understanding of their location in relation to their own carriers, the eight that formed the main group actually saw TF-16 and, believing they were enemy carriers they continued past "home". Meanwhile, the other two, flying about 10 miles further to the south, knew... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Mark E Horan) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/79666 Sat, 17 May 2008 02:57:33 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/79314/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-79314 feeds@yuku.com (Glenn239) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/79314 Tue, 13 May 2008 18:03:32 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/79249/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-79249 feeds@yuku.com (SeaTurtle Prince) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/79249 Mon, 12 May 2008 23:43:49 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/79066/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-79066 Understood on the ammunition issue. But with reference to mission fuel reserves and whether the Japanese had an advantage, how does the tactical utility of the Zero's range that morning compare to, for example, Hornet's ten escort Wildcat fighters?

]]> feeds@yuku.com (Glenn239) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/79066 Sat, 10 May 2008 14:12:09 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78998/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78998
Yes, some of Soryu's and Kaga's A6M2s did jump right into the CAP action over the fleet. With 7+ hours of fuel on board each fighter, they never had fuel problems. However, it did reflect their ammunition situation, specifically that of the two 20 mm cannon. The A6M2 only carried 60 rounds for each of its relatively low velocity cannon. In the case of the aircraft on CAP, those chutais had not been heavily involved in the air battle over Midway nor in strafing. Thus,... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Mark E Horan) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78998 Fri, 09 May 2008 19:27:50 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78885/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78885
You are correct that the Japanese scout planes routinely went out up to 50-100 miles further than the USN carrier planes did. Further, if both sides opted to go 250 miles, the IJN recon birds had longer time over target than the US birds did. They were, of course, out ranged by the PBYs at Midway, but only as long as the base was safe. Expectuing the worse, most of the PBYs aloft on 4 June had headed for landing points much father East, and only about ten remained at Midway... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Mark E Horan) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78885 Thu, 08 May 2008 18:19:22 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78756/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78756 Mark - thanks for the correction on the B5N2's - question are you confirming the Soryu Zeros immediately entered into the CAP battle upon return to the carriers, and if so, what does this indicate about their fuel state?

Also, what is your take on the argument I made, that the tactical advantage was less along the lines of striking range and more related to an ability to remain aloft searching for... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Glenn239) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78756 Wed, 07 May 2008 18:42:09 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78754/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78754 RBH Jr wrote:

Thank you Mark; that made everything very clear.

Your input is very much appreciated.

Seconded.

Light... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (StewartG) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78754 Wed, 07 May 2008 18:38:39 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78753/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78753 Thank you Mark; that made everything very clear.

http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78753 Wed, 07 May 2008 18:33:15 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78749/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78749 feeds@yuku.com (Mark E Horan) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78749 Wed, 07 May 2008 18:08:37 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78731/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78731
None of the vals or kates in the striking force stayed aloft anywhere near that long. I have the times of recovery at home. The only non-fighter aircraft that syed aloft for any length of time were a chutai of Kaga's vals, which acted as intercceptor's against VMSB-241s attacks.

Mark ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Mark E Horan) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78731 Wed, 07 May 2008 14:42:47 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78544/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78544 ]]> feeds@yuku.com (seasick) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78544 Mon, 05 May 2008 20:06:05 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78532/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78532 Most aircraft of the Midway operation were very low on fuel when they returned to their ships.

From memory, some of Soryu's Kates remained aloft until almost 10:00 am before landing. Soryu's fighters, when they returned to the fleet, immediately joined the CAP action rather than recover. ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Glenn239) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78532 Mon, 05 May 2008 18:42:50 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78503/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78503
No. One carrier sunk and couple of oilers, for 240 sorties? Some damage? Yes. "Severely mauled." Oh, come on.


Let's see, a CVL sunk, two more, plus a CV badly damaged, a BB, CA, and DD damaged, two fleet oilers sunk, plus another damaged, not to mention the loss of ~250 planes, and you call it "some" damage? I seriously doubt Ozawa felt that way, and the Japanese NGS sure as... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Dolphinstriker) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78503 Mon, 05 May 2008 06:14:12 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78500/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78500 Dolphinstriker wrote:


DS, it's a bit amazing to me that (1) you discount in some counterintuitive way that more range meant anything and (2) the real world evidence in this battle proves it did mean something.


Now you're putting words in my mouth; I never claimed that superior aircraft range had no... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (jlyons97) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78500 Mon, 05 May 2008 04:57:11 GMT <![CDATA[ Re: Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/reply/78465/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html#reply-78465
Japan will not accept anything except a free hand in China. That is why they went to war. What are the chances that the US will agree to this in return for the Japanese Army withdrawing from Pacific conquest achieved during Dec 1941 to May 1942? Practically nil I think.


Japan wasn't going to get a free hand in China no matter what happened...just wasn't in the cards, especially after they... ]]> feeds@yuku.com (Dolphinstriker) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/sreply/78465 Sun, 04 May 2008 23:25:42 GMT <![CDATA[ Why did IJN close to within range of Midway's aircraft? ]]> http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/6077/t/Why-did-IJN-close-to-within-range-of-Midway-s-aircraft-.html feeds@yuku.com (RBH Jr) http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/6077 Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:57:44 GMT