Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (miketr) — Thu, 01 May 2008 19:20:46 GMT

People are trying too hard to project the manpower shortages of mid 1918 into mid 1915. Simple arithmetic shows that 1915 Germany has no manpower shortage.

Stunned disbelief.... Dave please read some of the books that I have suggested. The First World War: Germany and Austria-Hungary 1914-1918 by Holger H. Herwig and Feldmen are two best books in English that you are going to find on the subject.

Germany went through cycles, at different...

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (borys68) — Thu, 01 May 2008 19:19:00 GMT

Ahoj!
German ships were sortie ships. When in port the crews stayed in onshore barracks.
Borys

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Thu, 01 May 2008 19:16:18 GMT

If the KM adopts that attitude then the Heer will also. So don't expect the Heer to start disbanding Landsturm battalions to release naval shipyard workers.

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (Roller007) — Thu, 01 May 2008 16:07:26 GMT

Dave in a Navy as new as the KM, they need every ship they can to train new recruits. The older ships provide that training while allowing the newer ships to be deployed. Also it helps build up a tradition in the Navy that is still developing one. Also it provides a place to billet crewmen waiting for deployment to other ships. All those Barrack ships were there for a reason.

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Thu, 01 May 2008 14:05:48 GMT

That only applies to peace time and the first couple months of WWI. By 1915 all the 1st Ban Landsturm solders (i.e. young untrained Ersatz Reserve) would have been combed out for use in regular and reserve infantry divisions.

People are trying too hard to project the manpower shortages of mid 1918 into mid 1915. Simple arithmetic shows that 1915 Germany has no manpower shortage.
1907 Example
Number of men liable. 556,772.
Physically unqualified....

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (borys68) — Thu, 01 May 2008 08:49:09 GMT

Ahoj!
Ho about this angle: - with 75% of prewar recruits coming from Land-und-Kleinstadt districts (in a country with about 50% urban population), this means that the ersatz Reserve (I hope I got that right) is full of barely trained (they got two or three weeks, I think) urban workers. Although by now - almost a year into the war, the younger ones could had been called up already.

Borys

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (miketr) — Thu, 01 May 2008 04:40:05 GMT

You might want to consider the problems with this idea.

1) Perhaps the Landsturm members had no skills of use to the factories and shipyards; note that factories had a well established habit of firing unskilled replacement workers the first chance that they got.

2) Look at the age chort of these people 45 and up; the army found out the hard way in war that the younger workers / soldiers were the ones the factories needed.

Now sure any of the Landsturm that had...

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Thu, 01 May 2008 02:18:20 GMT

One more time.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/123rd_Infantry_Division_(German_Empire)

These units existed in August 1914. They are not effected when the Landsturm gets disbanded.
Standing divisions:
Guard divisions:

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (miketr) — Thu, 01 May 2008 01:25:50 GMT

CJvR wrote:
They probably can't all be released, Italy isn't that trustworthy but frontline formations could be released to do something more productive and LW units take over keeping an eye in the pasta munchers. I doubt any 1915 divisions would be scratched, more likely some 1916 formations will not be raised but disbanding functioning formations at a critical time like mid 1915...

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (miketr) — Thu, 01 May 2008 01:22:51 GMT

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:55:40 GMT

I think you have the wrong idea. We are talking about disbanding 2nd Ban Landwehr (Landsturm) battalions. WWI Germany had 334 of them.

http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Landsturm.html
The second ban of the Landsturm included all soldiers and untrained individuals between the ages of 39 and 45. Second Ban Landwehr soldiers joined the second ban of the Landsturm at age 39. This was a really...

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (CJvR) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:55:39 GMT
They probably can't all be released, Italy isn't that trustworthy but frontline formations could be released to do something more productive and LW units take over keeping an eye in the pasta munchers. I doubt any 1915 divisions would be scratched, more likely some 1916 formations will not be raised but disbanding functioning formations at a critical time like mid 1915 will probably not be done.

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:21:22 GMT
An easy fix that should be happening as we speak (Summer 1915) in LettersTime. There are no Isonzo battles vs Italy. Therefore these divisions are released for use elsewhere:
KuK 5th Army.
1st Infantry Division.
17th Infantry Division.
18th Infantry Division.
20th Infantry Division.
50th Infantry Division.
57th Infantry Division.
58th Infantry Division.
61st Infantry Division.
93rd Infantry Division.

In my opinion...

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (P3D) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:31:25 GMT

Dave Bender wrote:
I would worry more about coal production. Historically German coal production fell by 17% during the war. They provide coal to all the Central Powers so this makes quite a difference in the overall war effort. Shifting new naval construction to fuel oil will help as oil comes from Romania and Austria-Hungary.

You mean the oil that was coming from the Galizia before the Russians decided to make...

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (Roller007) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:24:19 GMT
Don't forget the oil fields in Germany. As for Coal, the shortage was because the German's went off their plan for where they drew troops from the population. With more coal required for the fleet, workers for the shipyards, which in turn will actually help the army as many of the yard produced components for the arms companies ( Gun carriages ). The German's may have to sit down and smartly figure where there going to draw there manpower from. They can't afford to pull troops...

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Sat, 05 Sep 1981 21:09:58 GMT
Historically German steel production fell 14% over the course of the war. That production slump will not happen if the industry is given a higher priority. 14% is a lot as Germany was the #2 steel producer in the world.

I would worry more about coal production. Historically German coal production fell by 17% during the war. They provide coal to all the Central Powers so this makes quite a difference in the overall war effort. Shifting new naval construction to fuel oil will help as...

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (Roller007) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:14:45 GMT
Well for the last year almost Britain has been seizing all neutral ships with Hague approved cargo's and getting away with it. Why couldn't the German's seize these convoys and pay Denmark and Holland etc. for the goods. Basically they get paid both ways and the German's could release the ships after they are unloaded or offer to load them with some surplus good they could sell back?

As for the Reichstag, it all depends on the Chancellor who is in charge at the end...

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (borys68) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:06:33 GMT
Ahoj!
The Reichstag is one thing. The parliament of the Kingdom of Prussia is yet another - after the war (regardless of the result, I assume) it will stop being elected by electoral colledges. And thus revolution will come to Prussia.

Borys

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (CJvR) — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:39:32 GMT
Sure the HSF can do something about those convoys, they will have to pass through contested waters where the HSF at the moment have an edge so if they get intel they could do something. A bigger question is what should be done, I assume many of those ships are on neutral keels and intercepting them, even running in an escorted convoy, will not go down particulary well with the freedom for neutrals to trade movement that the EGZ tried to spark off in the US.

Yes the Reichstag would...

Re: LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (Roller007) — Wed, 05 Sep 1979 21:09:57 GMT
Here's a question. Is German in a position to do something about the Dairy convoy from Holland and Denmark? Also Wood shipments to england from Scandinavia? 1/3rd of Englands fats came from the one convoy and 99% of her wood came from the other. Also half her Iron Ore came from Spain. Also found out that the wood was used in making Coke for producing Steel in England in World War 1. If Germany can effect any one of those shipments????

LT- ITGWO Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

feeds@yuku.com (moltke1) — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:27:20 GMT

Into the Great White Open - Side Story Two - The Prinz Heinrich Letter(s)

A Letterstime Side Story