PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Colin Mc) — Thu, 01 May 2008 18:34:55 GMT

If CVF were wrested away from Brown's consituency, I doubt it would last long. It's bomb-proof at the moment. If Labour gets clobbered today, Brown will be pushing it through so that those nasty Tories can't take it away in two years time when they come to power.

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Meeware) — Thu, 01 May 2008 14:22:22 GMT

PA2 hull is a full french build. Far more sensible than the high risk, untried superblock approach, which is grounded far more in pork barrel politics, short term vote grabbing, and borderline corruption than any appreciation of the engineering, economics, or defense implications. If PA2 is looking dodgy I propose we take the spare slot in the french graving dock- stuff superblocks, babcock et al, we need carriers rather more than short term false boosts to local interests, and a great deal...

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:24:45 GMT

CVA02 wrote:

Bledlow wrote:

"France is left with the fiscal and political liability of supporting a Scottish shipbuilding sector" is clearly referring to Scottish content. What significant Scottish workshare do you believe it will contain?

Are you going to claim that there will be no Scottish workshare for PA2? All of...

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Richard B) — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:56:55 GMT

Despite much talk to the contrary, the UK and France are running essentally running separate projects for the manufacture of CVF UK and CV FR (aka PA2).

PA2 has been modifed to use the same General Electric/Avio LM2500 gas turbines that will be fitted to the Franco-Italian FREMM frigates - no business for R-R there!

France has saved Euro 200-300 million in design costs by buying in to CVF, but expects to save only about Euro 50 million during its manufacture from...

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Rob) — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:20:04 GMT

Are you going to claim that there will be no Scottish workshare for PA2? All of the superblocks are going to be built in France? Nonsense.

No part of the hull of PA2 would have been built in the UK. The only major workshare lost through cancellation would have been the MT30s by Rolls-Royce.

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Jim WH) — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:16:06 GMT

CVA02 wrote:
Is the Brunei OPV fiasco something to be proud of?

In fairness to BAE, the major 'problem' with the Brunei OPV is that Brunei's ambitions were greater than their skills. They purchased some very advanced light frigates, and then found that nobody in their navy actually had the experience needed to operate and maintain such ships. The ships themselves are just fine.

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (CVA02) — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:15:41 GMT

Bledlow wrote:

CVA02 wrote:

Bledlow wrote:

CVA02 wrote:
... Without a doubt, any British content in PA2 will cost more than French content, for the simple reason that the British shipbuilding sector is most...

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (CVA02) — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:10:32 GMT

reiverman wrote:

If the UK shipbuilding is so inefficient then how come both VT & BAE systems have won major export orders recently ?
http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/autoGen_106920132255.html

Is the Brunei OPV fiasco something to be proud of?

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:52:38 GMT

CVA02 wrote:

Bledlow wrote:

CVA02 wrote:
... Without a doubt, any British content in PA2 will cost more than French content, for the simple reason that the British shipbuilding sector is most decrepit in Western Europe. The benefits of share design and engineering have been diluted by...

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (reiverman) — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:48:23 GMT

If the UK shipbuilding is so inefficient then how come both VT & BAE systems have won major export orders recently ?
http://www.baesystems.com/ProductsServices/autoGen_106920132255.html
http://www.vtplc.com/shipbuilding/newsdetails.asp?ItemID=723

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (CVA02) — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:45:16 GMT

Bledlow wrote:

CVA02 wrote:
... Without a doubt, any British content in PA2 will cost more than French content, for the simple reason that the British shipbuilding sector is most decrepit in Western Europe. The benefits of share design and engineering have been diluted by British intransigence, namely the lowered specification sought by the RN for the sake...

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 23:04:53 GMT

CVA02 wrote:
... Without a doubt, any British content in PA2 will cost more than French content, for the simple reason that the British shipbuilding sector is most decrepit in Western Europe. The benefits of share design and engineering have been diluted by British intransigence, namely the lowered specification sought by the RN for the sake of economy. France is left with the fiscal and political liability of supporting a...

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Rob) — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:32:52 GMT

I think some here are underestimating French budget problems, apparently they are worse than the UK's, the figure of a 40% shortfall gets mentioned from time to time.

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (CVA02) — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:59:42 GMT

Obi Wan Russell wrote:
The minister may be dropping hints, but his boss, Sarkozy is definitely behind the project. French politicians tend to speak 'out of line' more than British pollys do, so I wouldn't worry too much yet. This probably follows the British-only order for steel for the two CVFs, as the whole point of PA2 was to generate economies of scale by being part of a three ship project. The French were...

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Nathan) — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:22:36 GMT

Is it possible that the French Defence Minister is negotiating for more money: The President isn't giving me enough money for Defence, so if anything gets canceled, it should be whatever would be most politically damaging to the President?

I'm also not very impressed by the line in the article: "Sarkozy had mooted the building of a second French aircraft carrier as early as February last year when he was campaigning for the presidency." Are they really suggesting...

Re: PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:05:20 GMT

The minister may be dropping hints, but his boss, Sarkozy is definitely behind the project. French politicians tend to speak 'out of line' more than British pollys do, so I wouldn't worry too much yet. This probably follows the British-only order for steel for the two CVFs, as the whole point of PA2 was to generate economies of scale by being part of a three ship project. The French were probably hoping for a larger share of the work too, much more than a third of the overall...

PA2 likely to be cancelled - knockon effects for CVF?

feeds@yuku.com (Mikey) — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:23:56 GMT

http://defensenews.com/story.php?i=3488563&c=EUR&s=SEA