Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (CliffS) — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 00:43:27 GMT

emc wrote:

bager1968 wrote:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/611346/the-weakest-link.thtml

In Londonistan, the appeasement of radical Islamism is lurching ever more giddily into the realm of the surreal. Hard on...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (emc) — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 16:26:48 GMT

bager1968 wrote:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/611346/the-weakest-link.thtml

In Londonistan, the appeasement of radical Islamism is lurching ever more giddily into the realm of the surreal. Hard on the heels of the Appeal Court ruling that abu Qatada, bin Laden's right hand man...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (CliffS) — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 02:22:16 GMT

In 1995, the day after Jacques Chirac became President of France, I had to secure the premises of the French Consulate in Sydney against an invasion by the Sydney Peace Squadron (a bunch of tree-huggers loosely affiliated to Greenpeace, ergo with a decidedly Francophobic bias). Pat-down search reveals they are sanitized; generic IDs verbally supplied - the usual anti-law-enforcement techniques (and attitude). What really shakes them, though, is my mentioning the option of charging them under...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (David Newton) — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:45:45 GMT

Part of the problem we are facing in the current war is that the laws of war about illegal combatants are not being enforced. Most of those we have been fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan could be classified as illegal combatants and thus subject to summary jurisdiction when captured. That jurisdiction, and harsh treatment under it, is there for the very good reason of stopping people fighting out of uniform and putting civilians in danger. Court martial and execution of such illegal combatants...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (Craiglxviii) — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 20:29:31 GMT

The whole issue to me sounds more a case of the press blowing up a story, but I think it is something in which the "law" could be more effective. For instance, during a state of war any enemy combatants captured out of uniform are to be considered as guerilla fighters, and liable to summary execution- and quite rightly so. Similarly so with piracy- traditionally being captured whilst sailing under the Jolly Roger was liable to end you up doing the "Tyburn jig" off the...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (Alisdair Gillespie) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:41:52 GMT

Alexius,

To be honest I think the whole thing is incredibly fishy: I seriously doubt that this is the instructions that the RN has been given. It sounds to me more like a junior lawyer has a written a "worst-case" scenario opinion to be one of a number of opinions that would be taken when formulating policy and that this has then been leaked to the press for whatever reason. The ECHR itself states that it cannot be used by people who wish to infringe a person's...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (Alexius55) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:16:31 GMT

Nice catch on the HRA, but surely handing them over to Kenya (where the last execution was in 1984, so a MoU could be obtained if necessary) would be possible. Unfortunately, UK prisons are already full without adding large numbers of Somali pirates! Edit: We can't extradite them, but does that mean they can claim asylum? Let's say an American citizen wanted for murder in a death-penalty state was to turn up in the UK and claim asylum. Would he get it, or be deported back to the US...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (Alisdair Gillespie) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:00:46 GMT

Alexius,

The HRA 1998 does (ordinarily) preclude the extradition of a person to a country with the death penalty as it is considered to be a breach of the positive obligation under Article 2 and its equivalent (optional) protocol. It is for that reason why countries that are signatories to the ECHR and that particular protocol. For exaple, when we extradite to the USA a diplomatic memorandum is agreed between the countries that the State will not execute somebody we extradite...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (taschoene) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:35:28 GMT

It's worth noting that since piracy is an international crime, any pirates captured by the RN could be tried in the UK courts and imprisoned in UK jails, deferring the issue of their potential human rights status for some time.

For a parallel case, the USN has captured pirates off Somalia. They could have been tried under the Uniform Code of Military Justice or in U.S. Federal courts (both of which have laws governing piracy). However, instead the US took a simpler route,...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:32:38 GMT

Curious thought what is the legal status of a warship and its 'legal enviroment'.
A ship might logicaly be under the jurisdiction of the country its registered under. But does that mean the countrys laws are the ships laws?
If a warship is operating outside territorial waters what law is operating on that ship?
Indeed what law is operating on a civilian ship, we know of US cruise liners that leave US territorial waters to get out of US restrictions on Gambling and...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (Alexius55) — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:40:35 GMT

Hang on... (no pun intended)
I have here (below) Article 1 Part F of the 1951 UN Refugee Convention:
F. The provisions of this Convention shall not apply to any person with respect to whom there are serious reasons for considering that:

( a ) He has committed a crime against peace, a war crime, or a crime against humanity, as defined in the international instruments drawn up to make provision in respect of such crimes;

( b ) He has committed a...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (CVA02) — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:39:31 GMT

Zen9 wrote:
Assuming they don't resist of course, and assuming the Captain infroms the FCO of their 'acquisitions'.

Personnaly I'd hang 'em for piracy.

Oddly enough, pirates were given due process as far back as the 17th and 18th centuries. It is notable that Captain Kidd was sent back to London to be tried and executed. Of course, they did display his corpse in an iron cage...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (PK) — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:38:01 GMT

Are Gibraltar or the Isle of Man also subject to this legislation?

The RN could put off pirates there for quick court trials and fair sentences - no Guantanamo, no Abu Ghraib.

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (Scouse) — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:08:59 GMT

Was thinking the same thing Zen. An edict like 'do not detain pirates' could easily be nudge, nudge misinterpreted as 'take no prisoners'.

Sinking the pirate vessel and leaving its former crew adrift in an open boat, or even taking them a nice distance offshore before cutting them loose, would be technically in keeping with the letter of the law here. As an institution the RN would never officially condone such an activity of course, but then, if the only real...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 00:47:28 GMT

Assuming they don't resist of course, and assuming the Captain infroms the FCO of their 'acquisitions'.

Personnaly I'd hang 'em for piracy.

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (emc) — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 20:13:26 GMT

seasick wrote:
Here in the USA we have solved the problem of people fleeing to Canada to avoid the death penalty. The USA just decided not to extradite. Canada lost its nerve and just sends them back now.

Quite a few countries will not extradite people who may be subject to the death penalty to the US. Of course, the two solutions are a) lie (not an unknown activity for prosecutors) and b) agree to life...

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (seasick) — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 18:20:24 GMT

Here in the USA we have solved the problem of people fleeing to Canada to avoid the death penalty. The USA just decided not to extradite. Canada lost its nerve and just sends them back now.

Re: Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (JBG) — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 11:07:19 GMT

There is an e-mail doing the rounds about Nelson wanting to initiate the battle of Trafalgar and the PC types shut off all his options. It was a parody but this latest article is bizarre in conforming with the stupid self defeating PC as in the joke post. So, if a pirate was captured, no matter how bang to rights, the PC crowd in Britain will allow same to suck off the teat of the British taxpayer with what justification??? Geeeze.

Jonathan

Pirates could claim asylum if brought to the UK for Trial?

feeds@yuku.com (bager1968) — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:50:35 GMT

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/611346/the-weakest-link.thtml

In Londonistan, the appeasement of radical Islamism is lurching ever more giddily into the realm of the surreal. Hard on the heels of the Appeal Court ruling that abu Qatada, bin Laden's right hand man and the most important al Qaeda operative in Europe, cannot be deported to Jordan under...