East of Suez - An Update

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 12:43:30 GMT

The way Sarkozy has been cuddling up with Gordon Brown, I think PA2 is looking fairly safe for the moment. They are both keen to promote joint projects to strengthen relations and they don't get bigger publicity wise than this.

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (Rob) — Sat, 19 Apr 2008 07:31:10 GMT

According to Defense Technology International's ARES Blog PA2 will be cancelled. PA2 is a very uncertain programme right now. You are right about Richelieu though, Chirac forced the CdeG name I believe.

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:30:32 GMT

Idle thought about PA2 - I wonder what she'll be called? Wasn't Richelieu suggested for CdG before they settled on the name?

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (esp49129) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:05:15 GMT

CDG's reactor is a 1980s design, so I don't know how much of a comparison is possible with Core H. If you look at the newest French reactors being tested for the Barracuda SSNs, which may be a better comparison, the French have certainly taken a very different approach. I'm not a nuclear engineer, so I can't argue the reasons or benefits:

Barracuda (upgraded K 15)
- Low-enrichment civilian uranium (cheap & plentiful in France + possibly...

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (hulahoop7) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:47:48 GMT

Core H isn't to be underestimated... it has a huge impact on availability and cost. Probably lets 7 Astutes do the job of 9, and might let us run 3 rather than 4 SSBNs in the future. Refuel costs are huge, so we are at a huge advantage over the French.

If the French had it in CdG her operational availability would be transformed. I imagine they'd be prepared to offer the UK a handsome barter to get hold of it... the fact that this hasn't happened suggests to me that it...

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (Rob) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:11:25 GMT

Was the UK gifted the technology by the US, or did it develop it itself?

PWR-1 was partly based on US technology but completly built by R-R and largely developed by it. PWR-2 and its cores (including H) was completly built and developed by Rolls-Royce in the UK.

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (hulahoop7) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:59:19 GMT

I find it strange that a country that has one of the most advanced nuclear infrastructures in the world, hasn't been able to develop the equivalent of core H?

Was the UK gifted the technology by the US, or did it develop it itself?

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:46:09 GMT

Rafale has no wingfold, was that always the case on the navy version?

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (esp49129) — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:35:17 GMT

As I said, I don't believe the 24 Rafale number, which is excessively low IMHO unless operational concepts have changed drastically and the French have abandoned USN-style density. My memory may be faulty, but I seem to recall this supposed deficiency coming up "coincidentally" when they started their sales pitch for the larger PA2. Suspicious, if you ask me... If you do the math, a 4,400m2...

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (Anthony58) — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 19:13:22 GMT

Brazil would be highly unlikely to buy, they could not afford it. India could, but would they want the hassle and the cost of refuelling it every seven years. Maybe it could be converted to conventional power. A second PA2 would be more cost effective to France and could be called CdG and would save France the cost of refuelling and get a larger more capable fifty year life carrier and be cheaper to operate over its operational life (the nuclear refuelling is expensive and time consuming).

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (hulahoop7) — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:21:11 GMT

Actually CdG was designed around the F18 footprint - which folds, unlike the RifRaf. I read somewhere that 36 was always tight, for whatever type, but 24 is now the max for RifRaf.

Makes you wonder why the French don't flog the CdG to India or Brazil and just get a second PA2! :-)

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (esp49129) — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:51:59 GMT

PK wrote:
It is very interesting to have so many units east of Suez, but this "fleet" needs ports and bases. The French have Djibouti and Réunion. Something closer to the Horn of Africa seems useful. Would Socotra be viable? Or would Aden be better?

The one thing the French don't need more of is bases in the Indian Ocean. Djibouti is less than 250km from Aden and about 850km from the...

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (PK) — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 21:44:36 GMT

According to Mer et Marine they have 9 Rafale M with Standard F1 (Air-to-Air)
and 11 with Standard F2 (Air-to-Air plus some Air-to-Ground, Link16).
Due to financial restraints, it is currently not planned to update the F1, but they still
hope to get a total of 60 Rafales, thought to be sufficient for the Navy..

Edit:
But back to Item. It is very interesting to have so many units east...

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:48:52 GMT

I don't think the french have 24 Rafale Ms as yet, the production rate is fairly slow (intentionally), hence the retention of the SEMs for the next decade.

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (hulahoop7) — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:43:37 GMT

I think they are restricted to 24 rather than the planned 36.

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (shaun) — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:36:33 GMT

Nice pics, thanks.

How many Rafale Ms are now deployed on CdG? They seem to take up a lot of deck space compared to the Etendards...

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (PK) — Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:26:08 GMT

An article in Mer et Marine (in French), plus some nice pics of french units.

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (Rob) — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:47:34 GMT

Here is a better list of all deployed RN/RFA ships, in March 2008 49 ships were deployed.

2 CVS
2 LPDs
4 Bays
6 T23s
7 T42s
2 T22s
3 River OPVs
6 MCMVs
4 Survey ships
4 P2000s
9 other ships - mainly tankers

South America / Falklands Islands

HMS Endurance
HMS Nottingham
RFA Largs Bay
RFA Lyme Bay
RFA Gold Rover

Southern Europe

HMS Somerset
HMS Exeter
HMS Pursuer...

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (Rob) — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 15:01:53 GMT

Here are the RN/RFA deployments of ships of 1000 tonnes or more right now.

South Atlantic/South America: 5 RN/RFA ships
Norway: 5 RN/RFA ships
Southern Europe: 2 RN/RFA ships
East of Suez: About 14 ships
UK waters: About 11 (though some pretty close to port)

Another 10 ships below 1000 tonnes at sea.

Link.
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/globalops/

Re: East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (esp49129) — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 04:04:40 GMT

I had no idea what you guys were talking about. Luckily, Wikipedia saved me...

42 is indeed a good approximation for the number of major surface units in both the RN/RFA and French Navy. (With a couple of caveats - excluding aircraft carriers, OPVs etc).

East of Suez - An Update

feeds@yuku.com (esp49129) — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 15:34:10 GMT

Here's an interesting tidbit: in mid-March, there were no less than 34 European naval ships larger than 1,000 tons deployed in the Indian Ocean, the RN of course being the main contributor. Imagine that! I bet many an admiral would LOVE to take command of such a potent force.

RN - 13 ships,...