F-35 replacing A-10

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (Dcnwilltex) — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 03:36:11 GMT

Using Afghanistan as proof in the "excellence" of ground support is way off target. The units there are operating in the best of circumstances. The Battalion Commanders have the luxuries of accessible CAS and FIST teams, the Special Forces Teams have the training and equipment to call in airstrikes. In the world ruled by Murphy you're going to run out of precision munitions and the zoomies are going to be dropping regular Mk 82, Mk 84 and other old iron. You do not...

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (JBren1) — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:07:41 GMT

Michael Hoddy wrote:
I'm not saying to buy new F-16's. I'm saying that if the F-35 can replace the A-10 due to it's PGM abilities, then the F-16, which has the same PGM capabilities (able to drop anything in the current arsenal) should be able to do the A-10 mission NOW, with less risk from ground fire.

The F-16 (and other USAF/USN/USMC fast jets) definitely *can* do the CAS mission as it...

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (A G Williams) — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:14:21 GMT

CAS is perhaps the mission that is causing most headscratching, because the range of options is so wide.

Various options already mentioned:

1. Go down and dirty with a survivable plane like the A-10.

2. Ditto with an attack chopper (slower to reach the target, less payload, less range, less survivable).

3. A fast mover dropping PGMs from on high (but how can they be sure of their targets? Remember all those supposely-destroyed Serbian tanks which...

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (Michael Hoddy) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:02:38 GMT

I'm not saying to buy new F-16's. I'm saying that if the F-35 can replace the A-10 due to it's PGM abilities, then the F-16, which has the same PGM capabilities (able to drop anything in the current arsenal) should be able to do the A-10 mission NOW, with less risk from ground fire.

I'm setting up a bit of a strawman. Since the F-16's aren't being assigned the same missions as the A-10 currently, it seems unlikely that the F-16's successor (the F-35)...

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (NoOneFamous) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:45:52 GMT

The A-10 is so ugly, it's beautiful.

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (Desertfox) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:33:58 GMT

What you need for COIN is something like the Scaled Composite's Area. Small and very cheap, you could probably get 20 of them for every F-35 you buy.

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (JBren1) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:17:56 GMT

Michael Hoddy wrote:
1. Are you all telling me that we're going to start targeting insurgents driving around in pickup trucks with JDAMs or SDBs?

The F-35 is an F-16 replacement- it does the same sorts of missions. If mid-to-high altitude PGM-dropping is the mission that can replace the A-10, why isn't the F-16 replacing the A-10 in deployment?

1. Yes, or guns, and the F-35 will...

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:31:57 GMT

That would be pointless as the F-16s are also getting old and due to be replaced.

UAVs with Hellfire missiles appear to be the weapon of choice for insurgents driving around in pickup trucks. They can loiter over an area longer then anything with a pilot in the cockpit.

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (Michael Hoddy) — Tue, 09 Jul 1985 21:06:55 GMT

Are you all telling me that we're going to start targeting insurgents driving around in pickup trucks with JDAMs or SDBs?

The A-10 is a great counterinsurgency aircraft, which is probably the reasons the Army and Marines are so bully about it- it's perfect for fighting the kind of wars against assorted insurgents and militants that are right now being fought. It is basically doing a similar mission as the attack helicopters, but with greater payload (and thus loiter) and...

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (CliffS) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:07:48 GMT

Dave Bender wrote:
A job better performed by attack helicopters like the AH-64 than by a fixed wing aircraft. For missions requiring more ordinance than a helicopter can carry you've got all sorts of fixed wing aircraft carrying JDAMs.

It's "ordnance", Dave - you know, the stuff that goes BANG! Getting hit with ordinance is when a parking cop slaps a ticket under your...

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:45:46 GMT

A job better performed by attack helicopters like the AH-64 than by a fixed wing aircraft. For missions requiring more ordinance than a helicopter can carry you've got all sorts of fixed wing aircraft carrying JDAMs.

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (Obi Wan Russell) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:58:51 GMT

I think it's more of a numbers game for the USAF, in order to justify a larger order of F-35As (or at least large enough to meet their projected needs) they have included the A-10 amonst the list of types it will replace, even if the Lightning will not be a direct replacement. As has been pointed out already, the A-10s mission is moving away from very close range/ very low level regime to further out with pgms, and this trend allows the Lightning to begin to take on the mantle. I still...

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (Ed) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:36:41 GMT

The A-10 was designed to take hits, and no one ever thought it wouldn't. Can an A-10 be shot down? Yes, of course it can, but it is very difficult. But with the advent of the A-10C, and its ability to deliver munitions from high altitudes, it does take some of the stress off the airframe.

But, the A-10, even the "C" model will always have to get "down and dirty" as that is where the troops it is supporting and the bad guys it needs to kill are. Even on the...

Re: F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (taschoene) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 10:01:19 GMT

The advent of compact, low-cost PGMs -- especially the Small-Diameter Bomb--is really causing a rethink as to what's needed for the close air support mission. The reason we're seeing A-10s coming back with lots of holes in them is that they have to get way down in the weeds to deliver their attacks, when a fast-mover (or a bomber, even) with small PGMs can usually accomplish the same CAS mission without ever entering the threat envelope.

Even the A-10 is becoming primarily...

F-35 replacing A-10

feeds@yuku.com (Michael Hoddy) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:01:57 GMT

One of the aircraft the F-35 JSF is supposed to replace in service is the A-10 Warthog. Can someone explain to me how a slow, heavily armed and armored simple aircraft built around a gun and designed to fly low and slow into all sorts of small-arms fire is going to get mission-replaced by a stealth fighter-bomber. It seems like the A-10 is a perfect aircraft for the GWOT- it's a great FAC aircraft, can loiter and carry all manner of stores, and many have come back to base in Iraq and...