Prelude to War (Part Seven)

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (Desertfox) — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 07:51:53 GMT

Mexico is not the weakling it is made out to be. Today Mexico has the 12th largest economy in the world and the 3rd largest American country in terms of population. This wont change alot in this timeline, not when Mexico is the #1 exporter of oil and has quite a bit of foreign investments. Yes Mexico will be weak compared to the US, but not to the extent comonly thought.

Also the US Army might be relatively strong but it is not the Wermatch in terms of tactics. Remember the French...

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (NoOneFamous) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:20:16 GMT

Once the US Government decided to open up the occupied territories, well business went in as did modern railways and roads and all the supporting infrastructure. And yes Mexico was more stable and yes there was foreign investments, and not all those white Anglo Saxons were Brits, Germans, or Frenchmen looking to make money, some were American intelligence operatives doing their jobs.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (W D Martin) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:59:48 GMT

Im not underestimating Mexico, I'm accepting the reality of the situation. In TTL, the Mexicans have had a longer serving, more stable government. This is a necessity for them to have a larger military, it can't happen any other way. This means that Mexico will also have to have more foreign investment more industry and more infrastructure to handle that, including RR and roads. Even if NOF decides that Mexico has somehow gotten the funding to have this larger, more well equipped...

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (NoOneFamous) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:10:05 GMT

Desert, you don't simply understand. There will be no 4th Mexican-American War. The Yanks are coming and they are coming to finish the job. The Mexican Navy is no match for the USN. Mexico is about to pay for their leaders mistakes (including using mustard gas). The Americans have the numbers and they have the desire to finish the job.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (trekaddict) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 10:37:12 GMT

That might be so, but I think ( and feel free to correct me if I am wrong ) that the sheer industrial power and the fact taht the US simply outnumbers the mexicans by a fair margin will eventually decide the war.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (Desertfox) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:58:49 GMT

Don't underestimate Mexico, they did beat the French when the French had a world class army (Cinco de Mayo), inflicted the highest casualty rate ever on the US (25%), and defeated several US Filibuster expeditions (Caborca).

But I guess it's like Porfirio Diaz once said "Pobre Mexico, Tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos." (Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States)

Edit: Italy and Korea where for the most part bloody...

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (W D Martin) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:11:04 GMT

I think you are vastly overstating the ability of the Mexican Army to win, and understating both the probability of the US winning and their difficulties in doing so. After fighting through this terrain in two previous wars they are undoubtedly familiar with it, in addition to now owning a large chunk of it courtesy of the last Mexican American War(part of WWI) in TTL. Italy had mountains, along with a goodly portion of N.Africa, and Korea, and tanks were used quite successfully in those...

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (Desertfox) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 05:02:41 GMT

Oh and forget about bringing heavy artillery, while the railroads are decent, the roads are very bad or nonexistant. The Mexicans will be able to easily reinforce and resupply their forces, while the US troops will not. So while on paper, the US should be able to win, in practice the terrain is excellent for defense and does not allow for combined arms tactics. Oh and if General Alavaro Obregon is still alive, the task for the US will be even more difficult. He understood the value of...

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (NoOneFamous) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:31:09 GMT

Well then that would apply to lessons learnt wouldn't it?

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (Desertfox) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:10:48 GMT

Its not like you can use tanks in Mexico. Mexico does not have the plains of Europe but rather two big and nasty mountain ranges running down the length of the entire coutry. Perfect territory for guerilla operations against the enemy.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (NoOneFamous) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:51:46 GMT

They are indeed learning some lessons about the use of armored cars and tanks.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (trekaddict) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:04:51 GMT

Lets hope they can get rid of these toys before the real fight starts, but it should provide them with some insoights into armoured Warfare, but as they are facing mostly Infantry ( for now ) I fear they will not get rid of their... questionable Armour doctrine.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (NoOneFamous) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:26:39 GMT

The Mech Cavalry are driving around in M1 Combat Cars, the Armored Brigades are running around in M2 Light Tanks

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (NoOneFamous) — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:19:48 GMT

While there has been some Mexican immigration, there has been no major problems with their assimilation.

Relations with Japan and China are the same in my time line as it happened in ours. Things are a little more tense with Germany because of their relationships with the Mexicans.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (NoOneFamous) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:12:54 GMT

Mexico isn't going to get any 109s.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (Desertfox) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 22:29:12 GMT

Ah my bad! For some reason I read the dates as 1940! Got confused with the 1939 part of the story.

Experienced troops will only help if the US wins, which could not happen.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (JNiemczyk) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:31:34 GMT

Good chapter, NoF. Quite a few historical characters in there gaining experience that will come in handy in the near future.
The American armed forces are also building up useful experience in conducting major operations. When WW2 comes there will be far fewer green troops, which could prove crucial. I don't, for example, foresee a Kasserine Pass like debacle happening in TTL.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (REMATOG) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:24:11 GMT

You mention the shipment of Panzer Mark I's as including "shells". The Pz-I was a light tank in the mould of the Great War's French FT-17. The Pz-I was only armed with a pair of rifle caliber (7.92mm) machine guns. No cannon. Also, in September 1935, only the A model would have been available (the much improved B model begun production in August, 1935). So, unless these were some of very first B models off of the line, these would have had to have been A models, which...

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (vpsoccer) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:17:48 GMT

Desertfox wrote:
So when does Mexico get the first batch of Bf-109Fs?

Early 1941. That is 5 and a half years after the outbreak of this war, so I suppose they will be part of the new government's self-defense plans.

The 1935 versions of the 109 were the prototypes.

Re: Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (Desertfox) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:31:40 GMT

In 1932 Mexico was the world's largest exporter of Oil, and during WWII exported quite a bit of the oil used by the US. The US does have oil, but does it have enough?

Mexico in this time period also had quite a strong aircraft industry (TNCA, Azcarte) and even developed its own fighter aircraft (TNCA Tololoche), so they don't need complete 109s, just the plans, and they can license build.

Prelude to War (Part Seven)

feeds@yuku.com (NoOneFamous) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:55:37 GMT

PRESIDENTIAL ADDRESS TO CONGRESS

"Yesterday, September 16, 1935, a date which will never be forgotten, the forces of Mexico launched two cowardly and dastardly attacks on America. I m sad to report to the American public that our Embassy in Mexico City was attacked without provocation by the Mexican Army. I am sadden to report that no one appears to have survived the assault and reports from the city indicate...