2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (Joshua Kintner) — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 05:20:33 GMT

After careful review and taking into account certain considerations, it is declared that Borys68's design is the winner of the competition. Congratulations Borys!

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (1Big Rich) — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:48:02 GMT

Joshua Kintner wrote:
And this may be taking advantage of hindsight, but German capital ships raiding in the Atlantic would not risk a fight with anything that could damage them and impair their raiding abilities. S&G had a decent chance of taking out Renown off of Norway, but they still ended up running away.

The tactical situation off of Vestfjord that evening was pretty complex. There was a force 9 gale...

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (FreeloaderUK) — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:48:30 GMT

Renown may have been old but she was fast, had decent armour & six 15" guns. the S+G were hampered by the fact they were rushed into service before 15" mounts could be fitted. the German navy planned to arm the S+G with six 15" guns. the french went for eight 13" high velocity guns when arming the Dunkerque class which admittedly is a 35,000 ton ship.

i feel that a 2nd line BB armed with only 4 guns is not worth its cost- you mayaswell go for a Renown or S+G...

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (Joshua Kintner) — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 22:03:00 GMT

whats the obsession with 4 capitol ship guns fitted to ships too small to be be BBs or BCs?

I was going for a Fisher concept here and looking for something along the lines of a more modern Courageous class ship. She wouldn't be used for fleet actions, her roles would be limited to coastal protection, convoy escort, amphibious escort, and shore bombardement. A secondary class ship used for secondary roles that frontline battleships should not be...

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (Jefgte) — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:18:20 GMT

I agree with you FreeloaderUK, 6 guns is the minimum to be serious in action.

Jef

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (xtvpry) — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:51:05 GMT

15" base-first penetration that PoW suffered

Perhaps? I am probably wrong.

Cheers.

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (FreeloaderUK) — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 00:26:43 GMT

whats the obsession with 4 capitol ship guns fitted to ships too small to be be BBs or BCs?

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (Craiglxviii) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:25:01 GMT

Xtvpry, are you sure you don't mean the 15" base-first penetration that PoW suffered?

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (Jefgte) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:17:55 GMT

Here is my study:

Escort 18500T BB with a speed of 28 kts to work with the new KGV class
I reuse also the 15" turrets of the old R class
& the 80 000SHP machinery of the County class cruiser.

An economical BB

Lion, British escort Battleship laid down 1935

Displacement:

17 666 t light; 18 500 t standard; 21...

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (Red Admiral) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:03:23 GMT

Refit all the R-class battleships to QE/Valiant standard and still have cash left over compared to building just one of these white elephants. This also means the RN can be much stronger in the Med. and off Norway.

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (xtvpry) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:22:19 GMT

Yes, but that was not my brief.

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (FreeloaderUK) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:15:16 GMT

the revised HMS stalwart is a much better design- but one may go all out & increase displacement by a few thousand tons- use the extra weight to increase speed & maybe use 14" guns instead & you've got a full blown battlecruiser that is far more useful to the fleet.

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (xtvpry) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:01:03 GMT

My revised HMS Stalwart would be immune to 8" shells. PoW was penetrated beneath the waterline by an 8" shell hit. My design has enough underwater protection to guard against plunging fire. It has a 26ft belt with 10ft underneath the water-line. And it has 8" deck armour which is far more than PoW.

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (FreeloaderUK) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:43:16 GMT

lets be realistic this BB sucks- & she's not immune to 8" shells- the PoW a 40,000 ton BB got penetrated by an 8" shell, again 4 guns isnt enough. ull find that the S+G or the Dunkerque would be more than a match for a 25,00 ton BB.

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (borys68) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:14:49 GMT

Ahoj!
Maybe I overdid the cheapness of the design , or the scraping of the QE's.

However, I'd expect the existence of these cheapos - six? - to free up QE's and the battlecruisers for fleet actions, until enough KGV's and Lion's enter service. These are 2nd line units, for 2nd line work. A ship like this would had cleared up the Narvik fyiord just as well as the Warspite, for 2/3rds...

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (NewGolconda) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:30:20 GMT

Dont forget, even the despised R's fought in Med fleet actions. The common idea of them escorting convoys for six years like a flwoer class corvette is quite wrong.

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (borys68) — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 01:41:19 GMT

Ahoj!
This beauty is built for a single purpose - to run with convoys, preferrably on the UK - Canada route. No need to import oil for them, they run on good Welsh coal. Frankly, top speed can be cut to 18-21.
Now build six-eight and replace the R and QE class.
Borys

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1937

Displacement:
17 701 t light; 18 492 t standard; 19 732 t normal; 20 724 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall /...

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (xtvpry) — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:09:54 GMT

No problem to get 6 guns. This ship could easily fight off a Panzershiff or one of the German CA's or even two of them at once. Her extensive armour makes her invulnerable to 8" or 11" fire. No need to go scooting off and leave the Convoy it is protecting anyway. Better to use a ship like this for convoy protection than the Nelrods or the QE's. The problem is that I can't think that the Admiralty would have had the foresight to...

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (FreeloaderUK) — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:26:11 GMT

im no expert but I agree with Rich- at 25,000 tons this ship is severely limited on speed, armour & firepower.

25knots= too slow- she can only outrun slowcoaches like the Nelrod or ww1 era BBs.

the Royal Navy also believed that Six guns was the minimum required for spotting fall of shot- experience drawn from HMS Exeter, Renown & Repulse.

ud be better off adding a few thousand tonnes & getting something closer to Renown or Alaska.

four...

Re: 2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (eltf177) — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:21:37 GMT

The Naval Archives have been posting some Springsharps and, ironically enough, I tried to sim the 1919 Small BB Design C-5 the other day. It's close to what you want...

Small BB Design C-5, US Battleship laid down 1919

Displacement:
30,158 t light; 31,624 t standard; 32,722 t normal; 33,600 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
666.00 ft / 666.00 ft x 95.00 ft x 30.32 ft (normal load)...

2nd class Battleship competition, 1935

feeds@yuku.com (Joshua Kintner) — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:54:34 GMT

Looking for a 2nd class battleship concept, a ship to be used in convoy escorts against commerce raiders, in blockades to plug off straits such as the GIUK gap, and the channel, or as coastal defence vessels. These ships are to use second hand weapons or weapons that aren't in high demand. A free range is to be given in handling displacement, however anything over 25,000 tons standard will not be accepted. Main armament is to be 13.5" guns firing a 1,400 lb shell, in two twin...