Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (radar) — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 01:12:33 GMT

from my understanding apar is able to handle 32 missiles in flight and a single face (90°) is able to provide icwi for 4 missiles in terminal phase. i do not know why most people think that this is a "limitation" during saturation scenarios. imho the terminal phase is not longer than 2 or 3 sec. on the other hand the launching rate for a mk41 is about 1 missile per sec so it's hard to imagine a situation in which 4 icwi channels are not enough.

btw eurosam quotes...

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (emc) — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 00:53:58 GMT

Actually, I did.

I just tend to think that navies designate ships in ways that are occasionally less than completely logical, and frequently less than consonant with the designations different navies use for ships which are, on the surface, similar.

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (caioduilio) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:50:39 GMT

In italian we still use the term "cacciatorpediniere", that's equal to contre-torpilleurs, and nobody finds it stupid. On the contrary when Orizzonte class ships were initially called "fregate" (frigate in english) everybody a bit skilled in naval history or naval technology found it really odd given the size and role.

And I should say that even in WWII destroyer's main role was no more that of destroying torpedo boats. But everybody kept the old...

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (marshalx) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:44:34 GMT

apparently no-one bothered to read my explanation.
Destroyers were originally anti torpedo boat ships, so the French called them contre-torpilleurs, a contre-torpilleur with missiles in a torpedoboatless age would be stupid ==> enter frigate. It's as simple as that, same for Dutch BTW (destroyer=torpedobootjager)

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (emc) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 16:20:27 GMT

...what's even more ironic is that corvette was originally a French designation for what the RN called a "sloop," that is a sailing warship smaller than a frigate (which may also have been originally a French term, too). It's something of which the USN was, arguably, guilty of for quite a few years, too.

I suspect (I read French with the facility of an average French 4 year old, so it's a bit tough for me to read much on French naval history) that the logic...

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (esp49129) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 05:30:08 GMT

The French Navy's ship designations are a bit "unique". Seems like a cultural trait - they're at least as confusing as Eurocopter's or Dassault's designations! Even though the French have generally adopted English designations (cruiser, frigate, corvette etc), they've also added their own, and then mixed them all up. Here are some designations used since WWII.

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (emc) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 03:48:10 GMT

radar wrote:
why do they call them "frigates"? because there is a "more powerful" destroyer around (type 45)? and why do they think that this ship is more powerful than the de zeven provincien or f-124?

there are some good information in the article but i would suggest the author either not to claim that this ship is the "most powerful frigate" or to show the readers some evidence...

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (marshalx) — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 01:20:14 GMT

caioduilio wrote:

esp49129 wrote:
The Italians chose a 3rd 76mm with firecontrol on the stern, while the French "preferred" (due to lack of cash) to reap the benefits of greater stealth and a better located stern jammer. The advantage for Andrea Doria is very slight IMHO. In fact, if those jammers work as well as claimed, then the additional gun may...

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (caioduilio) — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 22:57:28 GMT

esp49129 wrote:
The Italians chose a 3rd 76mm with firecontrol on the stern, while the French "preferred" (due to lack of cash) to reap the benefits of greater stealth and a better located stern jammer. The advantage for Andrea Doria is very slight IMHO. In fact, if those jammers work as well as claimed, then the additional gun may never be needed!

Well, I remember that a few months ago a...

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (esp49129) — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:18:40 GMT

"Europe's most powerful frigate" isn't that outrageous of a claim, IMHO.

The Horizons do appear to be better at air defense than the Spanish F100, Dutch De Zeven Provincian and German Sachsen classes. They are quite a bit bigger (by about 1,000-2000 tons), which has benefits in terms of their endurance, ability to take hits, and the...

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (caioduilio) — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:11:52 GMT

Forbin is not only the most powerful frigate in Europe ...

wrong!

Since Doria has all the capabilities of Forbin PLUS a third 76/62 with a second FCS for it, as clearly explained in the article, Forbin could only be the second most powerful frigate...

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (marshalx) — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:20:52 GMT

the reason they claim it's the best Frigate in Europe is the same as americans claiming the Abrams tank is the best or Germans the LEO2, pride and chauvinism, besides it is amongst the best, as are T45, LCF, F124 & F100.
the frigate part is simple as the historic french term for destroyer was contre-torpilleur, not exactly something you'd use to call a missile ship.

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (radar) — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:17:43 GMT

why do they call them "frigates"? because there is a "more powerful" destroyer around (type 45)? and why do they think that this ship is more powerful than the de zeven provincien or f-124?

there are some good information in the article but i would suggest the author either not to claim that this ship is the "most powerful frigate" or to show the readers some evidence for this.

Re: Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (borys68) — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:55:44 GMT

Ahoj!
Nice read, thank you.
A Polish naval monthly also has an Horizon/Orrizonte aricle this month - nice coincidence.
Borys

Great article on Horizon - "Europe's most poweful frigate"

feeds@yuku.com (esp49129) — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:06:08 GMT

Meretmarine has written a long (5,000 word! ) article on Forbin, the lead ship of the Horizon class. Despite a few inaccuracies, excessive claims and onesidedness, it still is a very comprehensive look at a state-of-the-art frigate, written by a respectable trade journalist. In particular, the combat system's complexity and the redundancy built into a large, first-rate warship are very well described....