Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (westwords2020) — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 16:50:57 GMT

I guess I should further change my proposed armament. As for submarine size, the Collins class of Australia manages a submerged displacement of 3000+tons so a fairly large SSI is possible.
I would reduce torpedo armanent from twelve down to eight with two rows of four tubes each with four 533mm and four 650mm. The 650mm tubes would have two weapons in the racks and one in the tube. It might be possible to carry additional 650mm weapons in al lower rack though manual reloading of the rack...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (westwords2020) — Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:07:47 GMT

Sixteen torpedo/missile tubes with 48 weapons total is extreme so I'll step down to twelve arranged in three sets of four with two weapons per tube and automatic powered loading and no crew bunks here to maximize space. I would use, as suggested, racks long enough for two 533 mm weapons on each rack, hopefully using space reserved for berthing in other subs. Six of the tubes would be 650mm diameter while the other six would be 533 mm. The 533 mm would have four weapons times six tubes or...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (westwords2020) — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 03:53:08 GMT

How about eight tubes with four standard size 533mm calibre and four large sized 650mm calibre. The Russian 533mm tube can accomodate an 8 meter long weapon while the large 650mm tube can handle at least 11.3 meter long weapon. You could have a torpedo room on two levels (I hope) long enough to store single 650mm weapons singly to a rack and two tandem eight meter weapons to a rack. Racks that accomodate five 533mm weapons crosswise would stow 10 weapons total times four tubes or 40 maximum...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (westwords2020) — Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:53:44 GMT

I appreciate everyone's comments about this topic. Perhaps the best way is to have a two level torpedo room if large weaponry capacity is desired. I would see crew quarters in places other than the torpedo room and if possible, an automated system that selects the desired weapon and rams it into the tube. I guess I would go with a mix of 533mm and a new calibre 750mm with the 750mm weapons being an ASW standoff missile and a dual purpose acoustic/wake homing torpedo. The 650mm weapons go...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (drunknsubmrnr) — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:23:05 GMT

"The submarine would be able to engage targets with the antiship ballistic missiles whose manuevering RVs come down vertically at about Mach 3 in a radar blind spot. Only Aegies class ships have radars that can detect/track in the zenith. "

This is already done with the SS-N-12/19 and AS-2/5/6, which are operated by the USSR. China doesn't have that technology yet AFAIK.

Most anti-missile systems can detect, track and engage vertical targets, because of those...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (SubsRUs) — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 16:07:23 GMT

I think we all understand the reasoning behind your selection of weapons -- whether we agree or not.

It's the ship design aspects that I'm questioning. Eight torpedo tubes is certainly more reasonable than sixteen. However, you are proposing what would probably be the largest torpedo room ever put in a submarine and still thinking that your ship would be small enough that non-nuclear propulsion is a reasonable alternative.

Note that the proposed mix of...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (westwords2020) — Sun, 20 Jan 2008 17:14:54 GMT

Would eight tubes on two decks be a more acceptable arrangement? Six of these tubes would be 30 inch size but able to fire 21 inch weapons when needed via liners. Two tubes would be 36 inch diameter to support large UUVs and the ballistic missiles. The submarine would be able to engage targets with the antiship ballistic missiles whose manuevering RVs come down vertically at about Mach 3 in a radar blind spot. Only Aegies class ships have radars that can detect/track in the zenith. China has...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (SubsRUs) — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:19:02 GMT

Most of the previously-stated objections to the proposed submarine concept are accurate. A few additional comments:

A submarine with so many bow torpedo tubes will not have sufficient room for an adequate bow-mounted sonar system. How will this ship find the enemy it is supposed to kill?

The proposed torpedo room arrangement will require a hull diameter...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (westwords2020) — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 23:23:42 GMT

Just a question here, is there any reason a Russo-Chineese boat could have sixteen torpedo tubes with a loadout equal to the fifty weapons carried on Seawold which has eight 26.5 inch torpedo tubes?

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:41:09 GMT

Dave did your Dolphins get pinned on you?
Yes. About 1 week into my 2nd SSBN patrol. Since we operated out of a submarine tender at Holy Loch it could not happen any other way. For a fast attack boat home ported in the continental US (i.e. Groton or Norfolk) I suppose the ceremony could take place at the naval base, with family members invited. I spent the bulk of my military career in the army, before retiring in 1999. They often invited family members to...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (Fermi2) — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 20:57:28 GMT

Not just USN Subs, any SSN pretty much has the same set up. As for SSBN and SSK I simply don't know so you made a good point.

Dave did your Dolphins get pinned on you? A guy who works for me has two sons, both are in the USN, one is in the real fleet, the other on a target. The son in the real fleet just earned his dolphins and his COB suggested they use the boys fathers Dolphins and to let the father make the actual award. I thought that was awfully cool.

No offense...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:51:33 GMT

FTB. We were a Poseidon boat, as were most American SSBNs at the time.
(Fire Control Technician, Balistic Missile) for you non-submarine types. I worked in the MCC (Missile Control Center), first as a technician and later as 1 of 3 MCC supervisors. But of course I had to learn a general knowledge of the entire boat, to earn my dolphins.

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (Michael ODonnell) — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 05:03:27 GMT

Not all submarines are the same. Fermi is referring to US submarines, that will have a large sonar array in the bow, with ballast tanks behind that (although subs with the Tomahawk VLS system have the tubes built into the ballast tanks). The torpedo tubes have to be set back from the bow because of the sonar and ballast tanks, and end up being some way down the sides, angled out, with the torpedo room almost in the middle of the sub on the lower decks. But not all are laid out like this,...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (Fermi2) — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:02:23 GMT

The Will Rogers was a boomer, my guess is they put the tubes wherever they had room. It's not like their mission was to actually fire a torpedo.

What was your rate?

Mike

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Fri, 07 Dec 2007 02:38:49 GMT

Now I'm feeling old. Back in the days of wooden ships and iron men (when I served) the torpedo room was in the bow compartment.

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (Fermi2) — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:52:45 GMT

SSBN's do not surface when they fire a missile, in fact the terms "firing" a missile is a bit of a misnomer.

Dave the Torpedo Room location you mentioned is exactly how they are arranged in a modern submarine.

Mike

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:24:22 GMT

If you want to fire a massive torpedo volley then put the torpedo room in the center of the submarine, similiar to the missile compartment on a SSBN. The torpedo tubes would be slanted forward at a 45 degree angle, allowing you to fire weapons while steaming at a decent speed. You cannot fire torpedoes while on the surface, but who does that anymore?

Since torpedoes are so much smaller then missiles the center mounted torpedo room is a lot smaller. However you can make it any size,...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (westwords2020) — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:16:42 GMT

I have been thinking along these lines. In the upper torpedo room on the third deck level with quarters on the second deck level of having the maximum dimensions for tubes and reloads. Same deal for lower torpedo room. Each of the two levels has two rows of four tubes for a total of sixteen plus reloads.
The first group would have 324mm diameter for Paket improved torpedo active defenses firing Paket antitorpedo torpedo. The second row of larger 400 mm tubes would have some type of...

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (Alexius55) — Wed, 05 Dec 2007 00:18:00 GMT

I defer to your superior knowledge- and leave you to battle it out with Fermi2!

Re: Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (Dave Bender) — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 14:01:14 GMT

SSBNs don't fire all 16 at once
You don't fire 16 torpedoes at once either. You ripple fire them, with a weapon launched every few seconds.

If an SSBN surfaces momentarily
They don't surface when firing. At least the American SSBNs don't. They hover underwater using an automatic compensation system designed for that purpose.

BTW, I served on the U.S.S. Will Rogers (SSBN 659) from 1980 to 1982.

Sixteen torpedo tubes possible?

feeds@yuku.com (westwords2020) — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 16:11:38 GMT

For a piece of fiction in my head I was wondering if sixteen torpedo tubes, half 650 mm and half the standard 533 mm could be built into an air indepant submarine design. I remember proposed German Type XXI C was to have eighteen tubes, all reloadable at dockside but though torpedoes loaded through topside hatches there were no reloads on this boat.
For my boat, I envisioned sixteen tubes with two reloads per tube and no vertical or inclined tubes aft of sail.
The 650mm tubes would...