UK & UN Security Council

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 14:17:20 GMT

Zen9,

this began with a post of mine (no. 55) addressed to "used to be remf". That was where the ranking of the UK among economies was debated. I have made no assumptions or statements about your opinions on that matter.

In post 56, you described the UK as "a state with more global history than any other and more interest in global commerce, peace, law and order than any other.". I addressed only the "commerce" part of your claim, but that...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 13:04:50 GMT

Lets have a look now.......

In this thread you come in on page 6 and 'correct' remf, for his incorrect statement over the economy or so it seems.
Did you assume I hold his beliefs on the position of the UK economy?

Because when I state, that I can't think of a better member of the UNSC than us, you come in and say we don't have any more global interests than Germany or China, implying either Germany should be on it or we off it.
You assume to...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (used to be remf) — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 10:19:49 GMT

Bledlow wrote:
What is this? I point out factual errors, & everyone starts treating me as if I'm arguing against their standpoint.

Zen9 - why do you want me to justify my opinions on the UKs UNSC membership? What does it have to do with what I've said? I only mentioned it because you started trying to argue with me, on the false assumption that I was advocating the UK giving it up

...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Tue, 08 Jul 2008 00:51:50 GMT

Zen9 wrote:

Please, please, read what I've said, and not try to look beyond it. There isn't anything beyond it. BTW, I find the "reeks", & your false imputation of a hidden agenda to me, offensive.
This rather remindes me of the issues of language and how interpretations can differe even within a common language and reference...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:51:54 GMT

Please, please, read what I've said, and not try to look beyond it. There isn't anything beyond it. BTW, I find the "reeks", & your false imputation of a hidden agenda to me, offensive.

This rather remindes me of the issues of language and how interpretations can differe even within a common language and reference framework.

Difference perspectives, the 'corrections' you use can all be...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:10:19 GMT

Zen9 wrote:

What is this? I point out factual errors, & everyone starts treating me as if I'm arguing against their standpoint.

I don't trust the way your "corrections" are presented, perhaps that is down to patterns of language, I cannot say, but it is highly provocational. Theres something about the way this is presented that reeks of laying the foundations for a...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:06:59 GMT

What is this? I point out factual errors, & everyone starts treating me as if I'm arguing against their standpoint.

I don't trust the way your "corrections" are presented, perhaps that is down to patterns of language, I cannot say, but it is highly provocational. Theres something about the way this is presented that reeks of laying the foundations for a future arguement we should give up.

Germany by that source quoted gains...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 21:39:47 GMT

What is this? I point out factual errors, & everyone starts treating me as if I'm arguing against their standpoint.

Zen9 - why do you want me to justify my opinions on the UKs UNSC membership? What does it have to do with what I've said? I only mentioned it because you started trying to argue with me, on the false assumption that I was advocating the UK giving it up

Everything I have said is checkable, if you care to look (try the Office for National...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 19:16:07 GMT

Well now this is all changed at yuku!
And not for the better IMO.

How odd....! Now Yuku is back to how it was?

So despite this I think I have to say.
Its clear Germany is not a global actor in the way the UK is, which is strongly suggestive they either leave that to others or don't value it the way we do. There is history to consider there as with Japan.
There seems no case for Germany on the UNSC there.
Japan is comming out of its shell but its...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (used to be remf) — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:43:49 GMT

Bledlow wrote:

used to be remf wrote:
i certainly don't advocate a german role in the SC, if only because they refuse to a have a force structure capable of intervention beyond the fulda gap and the willingness to employ force in such a manner.

The Bundeswehr reorganisation which has been underway for the last few years is changing...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 15:22:39 GMT

Zen9 wrote:

We don't have more interest in global commerce than Japan or Germany
Does this not run counter the heart of the SDR which iterates how we are both investing more overseas and gaining more overseas investment?
Does'nt this also run counter to our direct interest in Dominion states even if this is more personnal?
Does'nt this also ignore how much more reliant...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 01:31:17 GMT

We don't have more interest in global commerce than Japan or Germany

Does this not run counter the heart of the SDR which iterates how we are both investing more overseas and gaining more overseas investment?
Does'nt this also run counter to our direct interest in Dominion states even if this is more personnal?
Does'nt this also ignore how much more reliant on imports we are compared to Germany.

Japan is not a good case I think, for...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 13:59:42 GMT

used to be remf wrote:
i certainly don't advocate a german role in the SC, if only because they refuse to a have a force structure capable of intervention beyond the fulda gap and the willingness to employ force in such a manner.

The Bundeswehr reorganisation which has been underway for the last few years is changing that. The F125 "frigates", the purchase of 60 A400M, the cutting of the heavy...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 13:49:17 GMT

Zen9 wrote:
We simply don't agree Bledlow.
Giving up a UNSC seat would be part of a process, one that has us retreating from the world and our part in it. Handing the decisionmaking over to others who certainly don't have our best interests at heart.

Germany does'nt have varioius bits of property dotted around the globe, nor does Japan. They have no equivilent of the Falklands, Chagos, etc......

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (used to be remf) — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:57:22 GMT

i certainly don't advocate a german role in the SC, if only because they refuse to a have a force structure capable of intervention beyond the fulda gap and the willingness to employ force in such a manner.

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Nathan) — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 21:40:49 GMT

If you accept the principle that getting a permanant seat and a veto is down to a combination of economic power, military power and world-wide interests and views then India and Japan obviously have valid claims to permanant UN seats but some of the others that are put forward... its hard to see any logic apart from a wish for inclusiveness - let's have an African and a South American PM because it isn't fair otherwise. Germany has only a marginally bigger economy than the UK or...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:09:00 GMT

We simply don't agree Bledlow.
Giving up a UNSC seat would be part of a process, one that has us retreating from the world and our part in it. Handing the decisionmaking over to others who certainly don't have our best interests at heart.

Germany does'nt have varioius bits of property dotted around the globe, nor does Japan. They have no equivilent of the Falklands, Chagos, etc...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:19:05 GMT

We don't have more interest in global commerce than Japan or Germany, & it's many years since we did, & although China has only recently become a major participant in global commerce, it has long had a fifth or more of the worlds population.

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Zen9) — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 00:34:57 GMT

I can't think of a better member of the UN than the UK, the nation that has links around the very globe from Canada to New Zealand, from the Falklands to the Shetlands, a state with more global history than any other and more interest in global commerce, peace, law and order than any other. The majority of the wannabe's are regional, very regional in comparison.
US, Russia and France all have a similarly global viewpoint and its only now that China is really a proper UNSC member...

Re: UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (Bledlow) — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:05:27 GMT

used to be remf wrote:
As long as the UK maintains the following three items there can be no serious outside challenge to the UK SC vote:
1) Fourth biggest economy.
2) Second biggest military spender (3rd if you include china's hidden billions).
3) An emphasis on power projection (it's no good having a million strong peasant army if you cannot influence a nation without contiguous borders).
...

UK & UN Security Council

feeds@yuku.com (astonishd) — Wed, 09 May 2007 11:28:56 GMT

In recent years the permanant presence of the UK on the Security Council has increasingly looked like a WW2 anacrohnism with many Nations being postulated as replacements or additions to better reflect the real world of the 21st century. I would suggest that these latest RN cutbacks might be the straw that breaks the Camels back wrt such a membership vis a vis world opinion. Is this something that a UK government might actually care about enough to lead to a change in funding levels? Also...